Cass Goes Retro, and Tim Approves

[espanolbot]

Babs shows Cass her old Batgirl outfit, and Cass decides to borrow it to see what Batgirlin' was like in the old days,













Cass punches people, later...



Hm, people in Gotham prefer the Babsgirl costume over Cass', apparently because it makes makes the girl wearing it look hotter (which is apparently partially deliberate according to Birds of Prey or something, where Babs wore it show off what she couldn't in her Babs persona).

This combined by the two guys differentiating Babs from Cass by claiming that the former was the one with the big boobs, kind of makes me disappointed in the people of Gotham, really.

And guess what Retcon has been added to the heap by the writer of Teen Titans! :D
http://espanolbot.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/dcnu-news-tim-drake-was-never-robin.html

Comments

[icon_uk]

people in Gotham prefer the Babsgirl costume over Cass',

I can see people in Gotham's point for two reasons

1) Cass outfit was creepy, it was closer than any other costume in the Batclan to being actual fetish gear (the leather hood with no eyes and no mouth rather than a cowl) . I appreciate that creepy was the look they were going for to a certain extent, but it would be very unsettling.

2) You can see Batigrls eyes in Babs version. Eye contact is one of the most primal means of communication. Soldiers and police are trained to remove any dark glasses they might be wearing when dealing with civilians because it allows for eye contact and engenders trust. At least with Bats and Robins you could see they HAD eyes (and in a good few iterations you could see Robin's eyes through the eyeholes of his mask)

The "DCnU Tim was never Robin" bit was announced at SDCC and I think discussed here at the time.

[jaybee3]

I loved Cass's outfit because it truly set her apart (and it predates Batman Beyond no) than any other member of the Bat-Clan except for Bruce - and THAT was the point. I don't recall a villain confusing Barbara or Steph for "The Batman" but several times with Cass she would come out of the darkness and bad guys really did think she was "The Bat". It also fit into Cass being the only one in the Bat-Family who WANTED to take over from Bruce as The Bat one day (and yes, I'm still bitter about that and how it was never referenced in the supposed Battle for the Cowl).

Not to mention that Cass' outfit was scary as heck if you were a criminal - especially combined with her fighting skills which would knock a man 4 times her size out and the fact that bullets didn't stop her either.

[nyadnar17]

He was Batman's partner BEFORE Jason? Batman was not so much his teacher/father as his ally? He didn't help rescue Batman from the depression of losing Jason? Batman just manned up on his own? The specter of Jason Todd's death didn't affect how Batman trained Tim or Tim's own approach to being Robin? Hell, Tim was NEVER Robin?

*sigh* Does anyone else remember the story where Tim Drake put on the cowl? The one where Batman is acting all brutal and basically getting really banged up trying to take down TwoFace. Tim tries to get Nightwing to go back to being Bruce's partner and ends up helping both of them beat TwoFace. That story along with Tim's first run in with Anarchy where the "ghost" of Jason Todd and Dick Grayson are advising him are two of my favorite Tim Drake character pieces...not anymore I guess.

[icon_uk]

He was Batman's partner BEFORE Jason?

Not sure where you got that, they say he was Batmans partner between Jason and Damian, which is what he always has been.

And in fairness, no Bruce wasn't Tim's father for most of his Robin career, Tim had a father (albeit a comatose or vaguely ineffectual one for a good chunk of time), it was something that set Tim apart from the other Robin's, and was one of the best things they could have done for him. I have issues with some of Chuck Dixon's work, but for striving to keep Jack Drake alive in the face of editorial opposition, he has my respect and thanks.

[eyz]

Back when my love for DC Comics was at its highest. What with Ted Kord around in BoP and all too.

Mmmh.. Cass in Babs costume...
:'3

[arilou_skiff]

So.... Tim and Cass weren't *supposed* to be Love Interests, right?

Because every time people post scans of those two, that's what it looks like.

[shadowpsykie]

don't forget the Smexing eyes in Gates of Gotham.

[q99]

Hm, come to think of it, he does seem to find her attractive in a way he reserves for almost no-one lese.


But yea, not love interests. It's like, "hot, but also kinda scary and intimidating" is I think his general feelings.

[mrstatham]

As it is? I highly doubt Lobdell made that choice on his own. He might be explaining it in interviews, but given the 'five year guideline' has been dictated to them from up on high and Lobdell was actually one of the ones wanting to keep Teen Titans history intact right off the bat, talking about how he basically wanted his first issue to be Teen Titans #101, I doubt he made this choice himself.

I think this is just a thing by Lobdell to keep Tim in there as a viable character when all four major male Robins are in play and the crunched time-span has had an effect on this.

[shadowpsykie]

yeah i agree, had it been his choice it probably would have all been explained from the start. We ALL know that the editorial teams tell thier writers next to NOTHING, other than telling them NOT to use characters AFTER they have already been drawn in....

[sadoeuphemist]

Ahahaha, from that interview:

"Re: TEEN TITANS 1

He is wearing a red costume with an "R" on his chest.

He says he was better known as Robin. Not that he was a Robin, just that he was better known as Robin because it was easier for people to assume he was a Robin."

Well okay, he wasn't actually Robin, it's just that everyone knew him as Robin, that clears everything up

*popcorn*

[runespoor]

yeah, at this point I just don't care.

except about what they did to Lady Shiva. fuck that noise.

(this is a lie i still care auuuuuuuugh wrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyyyy)

[shadowpsykie]

honestly, him not being Robin, doesn't really bother me. It KINDA jives with his origin. Tim never went into it wanting to be Robin, all he wanted to prove was that Batman NEEDED a Robin, and he had intended Dick to retake the costume after Jason's death.

that said, these explainations are... weak to say the least, however, i honestly just think this is a case of a writer trying to a)excert SOME control over his own story, b) a writer trying to stay inline with editorial mandate....

[icon_uk]

To go to the effort of proving via debate of all things, that Batman needs a Robin, and then turning around and NOT becoming Robin just seems counterintuitive. Either use the name, or honour Jason's death by not using Robin in the name at all (Like retiring a team number when a legendary sportsman retires or the like)

[roguezombie]

I don't see what's so special about Barbara's old costume. It's less creepy/scary, but I never thought of it as particularly ~sexy.

And this reminds me that it always bothered me that Cass would knock out the other people in fights because she was worried they would get hurt.

[mrstatham]

Words can not describe how annoyed I got when established characters were made to look like scrubs for Cass' benefit. This take on Tim is right up there with the complete idiot who mocks Lex Luthor in his own Oval Office during Superman/Batman's first story.

It made more sense when it was Steph - who obviously had less experience than some, but it still pissed me off that Steph was made to be incompetent, and it was always for Cass' benefit.

[littlepunkryo]

You know I don't care much for Tim these days, but how he became Robin was actually one of my favorite stories that I've ever read, because it really highlighted that Batman needs a Robin and it also highlighted how much heart Tim had (or used to have). That was always really special to me and it's just idiotic that they just HAD to mess with it, especially in such a poorly thought out way.

[wtfomfg2]

If they can do this with Tim, why on Earth can't/won't they do this with Cass as Black Bat and Steph as Spoiler?

[q99]

Well, they could, but they don't.

[horselover107]

See, here's my problem with retcons across the DCNu or heck, in general. They're supposed to (well some of the time) simplify things or make sense of something that didn't work in it's original state. But for someone like myself that doesn't read every issue ever but likes to know backstory, it makes things more confusing. I don't want past stories I liked to be invalidated or to have to think about if X happened this way in one timeline than X happened in this timeline. I just want to enjoy the story and not have to worry about other stories being changed.

I don't think retconning things like Tim's history is going to suck new readers in, specifically not "new" readers that have casually enjoyed past stories. If anything it's just going to frustrate everyone involved.

[q99]

Yea. It's like they tell half a story, assume that you know the rest from knowing before, but at the same time if you do know the old stuff it's different, and wonder why people get confused.

[mastiff]

The real reason she's hotter in the older Batgirl costume? The writers were kids and teenagers when they first saw it. It's the "Princess Leia Slave Girl" effect.

;)

[mrstatham]

Not really. Again, Cass' traditional costume does go a little too far into fetish-wear territory, frankly, what with the stitched mouth and completely black eyes and all.

It's down to respective taste, but.. Well, I can understand the consensus being that people find Barbara's costume 'hotter'.

[sir_razorback]

Is there a better shot of that statue Robin's standing next to, the one with the name "Kane"?

[q99]

I don't think so.

[skemono]

Does that drug have the effect of making you a complete imbecile, Tim? Ogling your friend instead of paying attention to the frenzied, drug-addled crowd of apparently super-powered people?

You deserved to get knocked out.

Tim Drake retcon

[big_daddy_d]

.....more proof that DC clearly did not think this reboot through.

[neurotic_kitten]

So Tim was never Robin? WTF?

My problem with the New 52 is that DC is trying to have its cake and eat it too, they want to reboot the stories, but want to keep already popular characters, which presence doesn't make sense if you remove or change their background story, but since they're already popular they want to keep them around and use pretty weak excuses for it.

What is the point of having invested so much time and interest in storylines that are just gonna get scrapped? And far as I know, sales haven't exactly improved, so I don't know what are TPTB exactly thinking they're accomplishing with this.

Also, hello Scans_Daily! I'm a newbie :)

[q99]

-What is the point of having invested so much time and interest in storylines that are just gonna get scrapped? And far as I know, sales haven't exactly improved, so I don't know what are TPTB exactly thinking they're accomplishing with this.
-

They did get a bump, but now it's fading/mostly faded.

Really they just don't have good planning or foresight skills.

Like you said, they tried to have their cake and eat it too, but these two approaches clashed with each other, and they did not sit down to do the legwork to make it work.

-
Also, hello Scans_Daily! I'm a newbie :)-

Hi!

[zechs80]

Huh.. the page Cass pounces on Tim in a "suggestive" like pose is TOO MUCH for the image site it seems.

[espanolbot]

Yeah, Iimageshack randomly does that. *sigh* Fixing.

[maniaxe]

The new DCU is sad, sad proof of something i've suspected about DC for awhile now. They're old and they know it. DC is th eonly real survivor that I know of of the Golden Age. They created Superman (the first superhero) Batman, and Wonder Woman (the first femal superhero). These three characters made them well known outside the comics world thanks to film, radio and television. They've been around ever since then. It would be good for DC if they took a kind of "Ragged but unbroken veteran" position int he industry. A guy who'd been there, done that, and came back to show the young kids how it was done.

But DC doesn't want to be that. They've become the middle aged dad who claimed to "dig" that Heavy Metal sound, the mom in the 60's who wore mini-skirts. The dad who greets his kids friends by saying "hey dudes!" They're basically in the worst sort of Mid-life crisis a middle class suburban adult can go through.

That's the DCnU.