Justice League #12: Wonder Woman And Superman.

[superfangirl1]

Comments

[darkknightjrk]

You know...the conversation leading up to the kiss works pretty well, I think. The way they open up to each other, it feels rather legit. Depending on how Johns handles it #13 and beyond, it could actually work for a little while.

That said, it would work a lot better if there was, you know, actual leading up to this before now.

[shadowpsykie]

you are right. It came off better than i thought it would. fairly mature actually.

but like you said, if there was some sort of lead up to it then it would be more... palatable.

[wake_the_dragon]

Yeah, this scene was actually a lot better than I thought it'd be.

[spacebetween]

That scene works, but they shouldn't rush it like they have.
Still not a fan of it so far

[rainspirit]

Yeah, I don't see this happening for very long.

[omnipotent]

Same. It just feels rushed.

[icon_uk]

The conversation at the end is nice, but "Wow!" That's some ego Wonder Woman seems to have on her with her conversation with Steve. It's doesn't HAVE to be about you, you know Diana.

The fact she's so dismissive of his efforts does not speak well of her IMHO. The points he raises seem valid, and I've seen nothing to suggest that any of the League are good at the sort of politics that Steve would have had to handle on their behalf.

[shadowpsykie]

well... Didn't Steve make it about her by stating she needed protecting?

still i think they bot raise valid points. He WAS attacked specifically because of his relationship to HER and the league.

but at the same time, Steve IS a soldier and has and will continue to put his life on the line regardless of her...

honestly, i think it's the honesty. he wasn't honest with her (treating her with kid gloves) and she is not allowing herself to be open with him.

[starwolf_oakley]

To a degree, Steve is acting like Forge in the ASTONISHING X-MEN posts futher down the page.

To another, he may be thinking "If I'm killed by an enemy of the League, then Diana will feel bad about dumping me."

[neurotic_kitten]

Dammit Emo!Supes.

I'm guessing this is the number where they find solace in each other and then become a couple. While I'm not against this development, I'm not too confident they won't ruin it, that being said I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, since this particular conversation worked well.

[mrstatham]

In amongst this dull shit that won't last, I'm more concerned about the talk of Barbara Minerva and the Cheetah. Like they're two seperate things and the latter mauled and killed or did something to the former.

If that's the case? Honestly, fuck DC. I know Johns in particular thinks she's another one who needs his special 'revamp touch' and he's dealing with the Cheetah in JLA 13 and 14, but honestly, if they make it into something where Minerva is the VICTIM of the Cheetah and that's why she's currently the Cheetah? Like it's some werewolf bullshit? Fuck. That. Shit.

[theflames]

If were re-imagining Cheetah as ANYTHING in my opinion she needs to be the next big villain in DC, they don't have very larger than life female villains do they?

I'd lover her to be evil, because it's convenient, and she can get away with it, no victim bull. Plus... I wouldn't her to call herself the Cheetah... I'd want it to be something the government tagged her with or something.

:P I don't even know the character that well, I just don't trust Johns that much,

[shadowpsykie]

hmmm that wasn't as bad as i thought it would be.... the lead up hit the right marks... but at the same time, yeah i wish there had been MORE of a lead up. not just these few pages....

well i'm eager to see how this will t urn out. its no way permanant. but it might be good....

[beoweasel]

Oh god, every time I read about Emo!Supes, I grit my teeth so hard I fear I'll crack a tooth.

Oh god, I'm an incredibly attractive and successful person with super-powers! I AM SO ALONE!

[korvar]

You're making a lot of assumptions here.

You're assuming that he sees himself as incredibly attractive and successful.

You're assuming he sees his powers as advantages and not responsibilities. (As an aside, a Superman who sees his powers as advantages and not responsibilities is completely terrifying).

And you're assuming he's not alone.

It's like when people respond to celebrities who struggle with depression by saying "You're rich and famous! Waaah, cry me a river!" But wealth and fame don't actually fix anything.

Having powers won't make his feelings of alienation go away. In fact, they will tend to increase them.

[stillanerd]

No offense but...how is Wonder Woman NOT patronizing Steve here with her whole "I love you but we can't be together because you'll get yourself killed routine?" Even moreso in this case because every thing Steve says is 100% valid. Just ask Peter Parker how well this works out every time he's tried to do this with one of his girlfriends over the years.

And I hope you like being Steve Trevor's "sloppy seconds," Supes, because that's pretty much what you are at this point in the relationship. Not to mention it's clear that his deciding to fill his own physical and emotional needs here is clearly going make him even more isolated from humanity because he's avoiding having to address the real problem--that it's more important for him to form meaningful, emotional attachments as Clark Kent. Preferably with a certain feisty, attractive, and street-smart newswoman with the initials L.L. ;-D

Yeah, this is NOT going end well for either them and, thanks to this weeks Justice League International Annual #1, we know that this is potentially a very bad idea on their part. Why? Because apparently...Booster Gold has ceased to exist!

[darkknightjrk]

"No offense but...how is Wonder Woman NOT patronizing Steve here with her whole "I love you but we can't be together because you'll get yourself killed routine?" Even moreso in this case because every thing Steve says is 100% valid. Just ask Peter Parker how well this works out every time he's tried to do this with one of his girlfriends over the years."

I think they're both pretty valid. While Steve is a soldier and isn't helpless, she is right that the only reason why Graves got Steve in the first place was because of his connection to the League, especially Diana.

[nate_abril96]

I haven't read the issue yet (i don't have enough money on my iTunes account), but so far this scene, with Steve Trevor, is the first scene to actually get me invested with him; as a character; and actually feel sorry for him. I mean any man who would continue to try and protect the league, despite the hate he receives for being the league's "errand boy", and nearly being killed is one badass mofo. STEVE TREVOR... YOU HAVE BALLS!!! Also, about the Superman and Wonder Woman relationship, i hope it lasts for about a year, because CLARK BELONGS WITH LOIS; AND NO ONE ELSE!

[rainspirit]

It will really be amazing if Wonder Woman and Superman lasts beyond half the time period you suggest, actually.

[theflames]

That seemed incredibly impulsive and needy, this won't last if that's all they think they have in common.

[greenmask]

Mm. There's nothing in the scene that signals passion, attraction or *personal* attachment.. It's the noah's ark of first kisses.

[kenn_el]

I've been reading both Wonder Woman AND Justice League and I don't recall the Steve Trevor/Wonder Woman relationship except for a brief couple of pages in JL that were not particularly 'hot and heavy'. Is Johns just drawing upon past versions of the characters in order to establish the relationship/break-up, or was there a mini-series I missed?
This might be interestingly awkward, as it isn't apparent that Clark has had any romantic relationships (if Action is any indication), and Trevor was Diana's first opposing gender one. They do have a bit in common.

[theflames]

"Trevor was Diana's first opposing gender one"

Diana had a relationship with a woman?

[aeka]

Because I've got nothing else new to add to this, I'll just settle for quoting Dana Delany instead:



Couldn't have said it better myself.

[wake_the_dragon]

That sums it up rather nicely.

Mod note

[greenmask]

IS THIS ISSUE CURRENT? I think it is??

Four page rule!

Re: Mod note

[superfangirl1]

Even with the three page cuts?

[big_daddy_d]

So... in this arc..it goes from Diana being so concerned about Steve...and.. she just...dismisses him and dumps him again..she fucking put a smackdown on Superman and Green Lantern over the guy for god's sake! And now she's all of a sudden making out with Superman? This makes little sense to me.

Honestly, I like the new 52 Steve Trevor. He's awesome and comes off as DC's Nick Fury, except without dickery..so far. He seems to genuinely look out for the heroes and you can tell that sometimes, he wonders just what the hell he got himself into. I'm finally becoming a Steve Trevor fan.

[maxisanacorn]

I hate that they made Clark Kent the "fake" personality again, that he "grew up with it"

It always worked better that Superman the alien was the facade and it was always Clark Kent at heart. That's where his morals and just overall outstanding personality comes from. He's is supposed to be the opposite of Bruce, whose true self IS Batman, while Bruce Wayne is fake....though the scene was much better that I thought it would be, and the fact that this NEEDS to stop over in JLI annual and thus is not permanent is also rather reassuring this is purely narrative stunt.

[eyz]

Yeah, I know how you feel about that :/

[espanolbot]

Diana: We're different from them..

Clark: Yes, we're better. Want to hook up due to our mutual emotional isolationism?

Diana: Sure?

[eyz]

Romance, everyone!

[bradygirl_12]

Y'know, I'd love to call up the Silver Age on this one and just have them reveal, "It was all a trick! To protect our Significant Others! This is all a sham!" I just can't buy Clark/Diana. They're more siblings than anything.

And, yeah, bummer over the identity thing with Clark. He's CLARK! He grew up AS Clark, not WITH Clark! Even despite the cute Silver Age Superbaby stories, he wasn't going around as a mini-superhero as a kid! Yeesh!

Poor Steve! Twenty-six years of being frozen out (he and Diana were a couple last in '86 before COIE) and he's still booted! I guess I'll be old and gray before I ever see these two together in a relationship that could be SO good if DC would just let them. *grumps*

[llei]

I am still not enthused for these two hooking up, but I with the right writing I'd like to believe anything is possible, and I could go with it. If they end up happy. If they have fun.

Actually, the bit that's really killing me with this is still Diana's background.

"When I first came here from Paradise Island, I was shicked to see that men and women weren't at war like I'd grown up believing.

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I am still not enthused for these two hooking up, but I with the right writing I'd like to believe anything is possible, and I could go with it. If they end up happy. If they have fun.

Actually, the bit that's really killing me with this is still Diana's background.

"When I first came here from Paradise Island, I was shicked to see that men and women weren't at war like I'd grown up believing. <Because I was raised by straw feminists, whose arguments and existence make no fucking sense. Because they're stupid, and it actually boils down to my having been raised in a kind of cruel parody universe.>

They were in relationships. For a short time, I thought their relationships were simple. If they liked one another they were together. But I couldn't have been more wrong. <It turns out that gender relations are complex. Like, I can lift sky scrapers, but if I hook up with a dude I'm instantly 'the girlfriend'. What's that about? It turns out even though my family were all evil murdering rapists, things aren't actually equal for women here? I just wish, Clark, that there was some philosophy or body of literature that would help me to negotiate the difficult power dynamics of gender. Why does your world not have that, Clark?

I just feel like I'm on the edge of grasping something, sometimes. A way I could be in a great relationship without having to feel reduced by gender to... fuck it, let's just make out.>"

[llei]

Sorry. That was stupid. Without the b0rked html:

I am still not enthused for these two hooking up, but I with the right writing I'd like to believe anything is possible, and I could go with it. If they end up happy. If they have fun.

Actually, the bit that's really killing me with this is still Diana's background.

"When I first came here from Paradise Island, I was shicked to see that men and women weren't at war like I'd grown up believing.
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Sorry. That was stupid. Without the b0rked html:

I am still not enthused for these two hooking up, but I with the right writing I'd like to believe anything is possible, and I could go with it. If they end up happy. If they have fun.

Actually, the bit that's really killing me with this is still Diana's background.

"When I first came here from Paradise Island, I was shicked to see that men and women weren't at war like I'd grown up believing.
[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<because [...] universe.>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

I am still not enthused for these two hooking up, but I with the right writing I'd like to believe anything is possible, and I could go with it. If they end up happy. If they have fun.

Actually, the bit that's really killing me with this is still Diana's background.

"When I first came here from Paradise Island, I was shicked to see that men and women weren't at war like I'd grown up believing. <Because I was raised by straw feminists, whose arguments and existence make no fucking sense. Because they're stupid, and it actually boils down to my having been raised in a kind of cruel parody universe.>

They were in relationships. For a short time, I thought their relationships were simple. If they liked one another they were together. But I couldn't have been more wrong. [It turns out that gender relations are complex. Like, I can lift sky scrapers, but if I hook up with a dude I'm instantly 'the girlfriend'. What's that about? It turns out even though my family were all evil murdering rapists, things aren't actually equal for women here? I just wish, Clark, that there was some philosophy or body of literature that would help me to negotiate the difficult power dynamics of gender. Why does your world not have that, Clark?

I just feel like I'm on the edge of grasping something, sometimes. A way I could be in a great relationship without having to feel reduced by gender to... fuck it, let's just make out.]"