Tim's Past as Robin Retconned out of the new Teen Titans Trades

[espanolbot]

Panel as it appeared in the issue,



And then in the trade,



And again, here is the panel from the issue,



While in the trade the last three captions, mentioning previous incarnations of the Teen Titans, have been removed entirely.


Censorship is fun! ^^

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2012/09/16/retconning-robin-out-of-teen-titans-1/

Comments

[kd_the_movie]

what is this i dont even
Like really WHAT THE FUCK IS LOST OR CORRUPTED BY HAVING TIM AS A ROBIN? WHAT?
Does DC really think the "everyman on the street" they're so desperately trying to appeal to is REALLY going to say: "Oh Batman's had 4 robins? SUCKS NOW, WILL NEVER READ AGAIN".

Christ.

[q99]

Well, my reaction involves less swears... but yea, DC editorial seems to really get fussy about nitpicky things for some reason.

[theflames]

Tad awkward.

So he was Red Robin with Batman? This... kinda bothers me.

[espanolbot]

Yeah, that's what the writer of Teen Titans decided would be the case a month or so ago... didn't mention this to any of the Bat Titles writers, many of which had already mentioned he was Robin in their works (including a Batman and Robin story where TIM BEING A ROBIN WAS PART OF THE ENTIRELY GODDAMN PLOT).

The website above, or maybe comicbookresources.com, actually went through each of the references to Tim being Robin in the other titles with the writer to highlight how... ill thought out the retcon was while he tried to explain it.

I'll post the link when I find it.

[an_idol_mind]

Prior to the reboot, DC claimed they had everything sketched out as to what happened and what didn't.

Stuff like this demonstrates that either many writers were misinformed or the folks who claimed there was a road map were flat out lying. I'm betting on the latter.

[espanolbot]

Yeah, DC's plans for the future, beyond "Superman and Wonder Woman'll boink at some point", seem to be either nonexistant or as well thought out as Napoleon's invasion of Russia.

[mortimerwclankitybritches]

Oh god..... Dc is actually trying to make us hate them. That's the only possible explaination

Also, does anyone else feel this is just the first foreshadowing of some truly epic dickery from DC?

The only question is, what can they do to make us hate them any more regarding this idiocy? I mean anything short of pointlessly killing Tim.... oh fuck i jinxed it

[ablackraptor]

I can think of something to encourage more hate. According to Bleeding Cool they're bringing back Cass and Steph this year, but the same article also said that the plot of that year's big story, Death of the Family, is about Joker hunting all of his partners. They've got two characters hated by the editors but loved by a fairly vocal (though in fairness, it was them that made this portion so vocal by deliberately doing stuff to piss people like us off) part of the fandom, they have a storyline about someone killing off characters, they introduced Artemis specifically to kill her off, and the other core batfam have their own books with Timmy getting his own book soon. Its not hard to see where that will go, and I do not like it one bit.

On a lighter note, on the chance that the victims will be previously unmentioed informants, doctors, and police officers he's worked with and Steph and Cass will be spared, horay! Cass and Steph might be back! Just need Wally and a few others and we'll be happy.

[zechs80]

Okay... so how will DC explain Damian being born into this universe now that they established he isn't a test tube baby, but one naturally grown when Batman only started his career five years ago?

[amaresu]

Before these #0 issues started coming out you could almost make the timeline make sense by supposing that various Supers had been working out of the spotlight as urban legends and such. It certainly made more sense then trying to shove everything into 5 years, especially the Bats and Lanterns.

Now they are screwed.

[icon_uk]

Ahem, beat you to it by 6 minutes, though I notice you've got more traffic.

[cypherfdp]

The obvious solution is a fight to the death.

[spacebetween]

Well my waning interest in DC is gone now. Wake me up when they go back to being smart

[ablackraptor]

But at this rate, the human race will be gone before DC gets smart again. How will you ever wake up?

[silverhammerman]

Setting aside my hate for DC's stupid retcons and lack of any clear plan for their history, I'm baffled by the decision to make Tin not a Robin. He was Robin for a couple decades and made appearances in several cartoons as Robin, he's recognizable, a trait that DC covets with an utterly reckless abandon, see what they did to the Batgirls to try to be more iconic, yet they get rid of him. I'm wager he's a more well known Robin than Jason, outside of the whole "Robin who got killed thing" so it makes not sense to me to get rid of him. If the fabled genuinely new customer who has never read comics before customer that DC claims to be courting but has done absolutely nothing to actually bring in comes in having seen the cartoons and knowing that Tim Drake is or at least was Robin, he's going to be told that he's wrong based on the whims of a writer and editorial mandate.
If DC really wanted to get rid of a Robin they should have ditched Damian. I don't dislike the character, but I don't think he's appeared in an other media yet, so his profile is lower, and I know for a fact that people who don't read comics are likely to greet the fact that Robin is actually Batman's kid no with the opinion that that's stupid. But then DC would have to go against Morrison, and since they seem to be prioritizing the wishes of capricious talent over having a cohesive and logical universe, that seems unlikely.

[ablackraptor]

That's what I've been thinking. Honestly Damian has grown on me quite a bit, but he'd be the obvious choice to retcon out. The explanation they gave doesn't even make sense. Wouldn't taking a name that sounds a lot like it be just as shoe stepping into as just taking his name? And, again, other writers have already established that he's a Robin. Consistency and logic, they're like Kryptonite and Red Sunlight to the DCnU.

[thanekos]

REEEED ROBIIIN!

..Huh?!

[auggie18]

Um, okay. Just a little question. The reboot was supposed to be making things easier for new readers, right? Then why make this totally arbitrary, seemingly pointless change? So there'll only be three Robins? Why? Is four the point were a group of Robins becomes silly? (I'm assuming if Tim's Robin days are done, so are Steph's.)

I mean, who is this change for? It just seems like it would piss off old readers and confuse new ones. I don't want to be mean, but this seems pointless and petty.

[chocochuy]

All this talk of erasing Robin makes one wonder : Why not bring back the Flying Fox character into the mix? It worked nice as Bruce`s first alter-ego on Generations. Then again, this might not agree with DC newest modus operandi.

[icon_uk]

It has a longer history than that, it's an ID that Bruce made up for himself when he and his parents moved to Smallvilles, (later retconned to be his guardians, later retconned to "WE SHALL NEVER TALK OF THIS AGAIN BECAUSE HE'S MUCH TOO OLD TO HAVE HIS PARENTS ALIVE")

[silverhammerman]

Also, I'm incredibly amused that a it took less than a year after DC's supposed attempt to clean up continuity and make things more accessible for them to make a wildly unnecessary retcon that confuses things rather than clarifies them. And now at exactly a year since them they're going ahead and making it official, rather than one writer's bad idea.
Also, I love that the writer had to contradict HIS OWN WORK.
A hearty sarcastic clap to everyone involved in this endeavor.

[shadowpsykie]

honestly i think this was the idea from the start (what ever that is) and Lobdell is just towing the company line (because writers who don't get fired).

because if it WAS his idea he would not have written those lines into his several comics.

[aeka]

Well. That's just bollocks. :/

Wonder how long this will hold out before DC goes for the next big stunt in another desperate attempt to draw in readers?

[ablackraptor]

I give it two weeks at most before said stunt, or at most until the next three issues are up.

[ablackraptor]

Its official, Dan DiDio and his peons are officially Silver Age Super Villains who traveled to this dimension just so they can destroy the continuity of their universe and make their return and takeover all the more easier. Its the only explanation that makes anyone with any authority in the company seem sufficiently evolved.

[chocochuy]

Now that you mention, there has been not much information on Mr. Mxyzptlk or Bat-Mite on the DCNU, so your theory might be viable option. 5 Dollars say Didio is really Jax-Ur from the Phantom Zone.

What the Fricking Frack?

[silverzeo]

Th-this... makes me want to bang my head... it like Dick is aware of the BS that happening to him.... this is almost as wrong as Superboy Prime becoming an irredeemable villain while Alex Luthor, they guy who manipulated Prime to become the whiny deathmachine that wants to kill everyone, was brought back to life and actual REDEEMED himself for his actions.... and I know HE was manipulated by the Anti-Life.Soruce WHATEVER, but that makes it even more messed up if you think about: The Manipulator was really manipulated and got a 2nd chance, but the original manipulated character is STILL the bad guy?

Re: What the Fricking Frack?

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

I dunno, I think Alex deserved being redeemed far more than Prime.

The kid was born during Crisis, and helped save all of creation.

...only to be brought back and made a villain because 'Luthors are always evil'. His blood made him evil, like Windfall, Cassandra Cain, Jericho, the list was pretty long actually.

Prime went bad, and just kept doubling down on his actions. I can honestly see that.

[halloweenjack]

"Censorship"?

[notactuallyauser]

Yeah, that's an absurdly hyperbolic word for a publisher adjusting stories it commissioned when it reprints it to make them consistent with other stories it commissioned.

[sistermagpie]

I can't help but feel that-ironically--a lot of the reboot, especially in the Bat verse, is going to wind up quietly retconned simply because the former version is far less confusing. That version at least had continuity logic. This is just throwing random details around as if that makes a story. Like it seems like they're turning Tim Drake into an obnoxious kid who knew Batman that we should for some reason care about.

[red_menace]

"We've always been at war with Eastasia"

[beyondthefringe]

My thought exactly. DC's attempts to keep rewriting history on the fly, even a year into their New 52 experiment/initiative, are increasingly clumsy and painful.

[neurotic_kitten]

Hate... HAAATEEE...

Seriously though, DC wants to bring new readers, so they want a new start for that, fair enough, but they make the story-lines too convoluted, and want to keep them tied to old story-lines that technically shouldn't count anymore, but want to keep them around so they don't alienate their current fanbase which is the one that has been following the past 2 decades, but by doing that they confuse new readers that need previous info to understand the story-lines, when they shouldn't since this is a new version, and with that in turn piss off long time fans for getting rid of the characters and plots they've have loved all these years.

DC, you can't have your cake and eat it too, you either start over or you don't.

And Damian pisses me off too, it's not that just I don't like the character (everytime I might grow fond of him he makes something assholish that makes me hate him again, but they're so enamored with the idea of Bruce Wayne having a biological child that they forgot he already has 3 kids (4 if we count Cass, but then again, nobody really does according to DC), that was one of the charms of the Bat-Family, they're all orphans, drifters, strangers that came together to fulfill a goal and grew to love each other and made a bond that didn't need to be a blood bond to stay strong. But no, we have to keep Morrison's little snot around, and we have to take their word that he's special just because he is Batman's only biological son.

DC stop trying too hard to be 90s Marvel, it wasn't good for them back in the day, it's not good for you nowadays.

Now got to read some Batman and Sons to cheer me up.

[lieut_kettch]

After a year of this crap, I think DC has to look at its sales figures and think long and hard about whether the DCnU has succeeded in its goal of bringing in new readers while at the same time maintaining its current fanbase.

[shadowpsykie]

i don't know about which sales... but i believe the figures have showed that DC HAS been doing better since the reboot...

not saying i like that... but i mean if they ARE selling better after the reboot, why WOULD they change...?

[junkurosu]

How much stock do I have to buy to "own" DC and have a sway over what they do?

Because I really need that fantasy to keep myself from crying in my sleep over inconsistency.

[likeaminx]

51%? THAT'S HOW IT WORKS ON TV ALL THE TIME!!!!

[magusfool]

Screw it. I'm done. I'm done with DC comics, for now. Until a regime change, and some major creative shifts, I'm finished even trying to read or follow their comics. Marvel alienated me completely with all their event comics, and now I'm done with DC. I can't even escape into Wildstorm or Vertigo books like I used to do whenever I felt insulted by Marvel or DC pandering, because they both got absorbed into DC proper! Arrrgh... I'll just stick to buying trades of older and better stories.

[eyz]

Same here :/
I haven't bought a single New 52 comic/issue/TPB since it all started... but that didn't stop me from reading so many 80s/90s/2000s DC stuff lately!

[minervasolo]

When Marvel wanted a continuity-free universe to introduce new readers to the universe, they invented the Ultimate universe. It was fun - current readers could see old storylines playing out in different ways and new readers came to them fresh. A lot of the lines wound down, readers transferred to the main universe, yay.

DC has managed something that's got far more continuity issues than their multi-crisis universe, baffling both old and new readers. If you come in off the cartoons, half the characters are different. If you come in off the films, the characters are the same but the back stories are different. If you've ever had a passing glance at the comics in the past - if you've picked up a couple of trades - then both characters and backstories are different, and if you're a casual reader Flashpoint probably passed you by entirely.

Just. What? Why, DC? The crises were overcomplicating stuff enough, but this is just a weird mess.

[theflames]

it 'was' fun? It's pretty great now to be honest.

DC should have taken the EXACT same route, there isn't too much shame in simply copying a good idea.

[blackruzsa]

Wow this is just a mess. I guess it would have gotten quite a bit of flak, but would have been minded less if they'd made that decision right off the bat instead of trying to cover it up, very unsubtly, if I may add.

[shadowpsykie]

honeslty i think it's Lobdell trying to both adjust to the rapid changes in the DC offices, AND excert SOME control over his work.... not necissarily happy about it... but i think i understand...

also, if this were his idea, then he would not have put in the hints or the straight up references to him being Robin, if this was his plan all along.

Especially since Lobdell's intention was to try and make this as clean a transition from the previous version as he could... he could only do that if DC let him and i don't think they did.

I don't like it. but this is mostly DC being at fault here. Not the writer. I believe the writer is only trying to adjust to what he is being told.

[mrstatham]

This. I think we can blame Lobdell for stuff like his initial work with Starfire, but it's pretty blatantly clear that DC didn't know what the fuck they were doing with the Teen Titans or the Robins; We all remember that bit of a kerfuffle about whether or not Leviathan Strikes would have either Steph and Batgirl or Spoiler, right? Yet another New52 argument - the former meant the book was old DCU, the latter would've meant that Steph would be present in the New52. As such, Lobdell really, really can't be blamed. He's on record as initially saying "My run's basically Teen Titans #101", after all.

Another telling element that NO-ONE here seems to have picked up on was the decisive erasure of the old Teen Titans team entirely back in June. Go pick up the Hydrology hardcover for Batwoman, and the dialogue has been changed even there; Bette Kane no longer refers to herself as a former Teen Titan, but just a vigilante.