I think the best part about the issue was him describing his childhood. With the way he writes the humor, his parents seem almost endearing, despite the fact that they're both horrible people.
Kinda miss the stealing the hubcaps off the Batmobile thing, but I can understand why they cut it.
Now, Joker planning for Todd to become Robin...it's a huge stretch, I'm not convinced...but depending on how they play the Jason and Joker dynamic during Death of the Family, I think it could work.
I don't know, personally I think it's a pretty fantastic idea that he basically fashions someone to be a Robin, who is then taken into Batman's confidences and whom Batman really cares for, only to take that away in an instant.
It's just the execution. And the fact it loses so much impact in this new, crunched timeline.
Wait, what? How does Joker figure that "orphaning some boy" = "he becomes Robin"? Does he know that Batman's an orphan, and that the previous Robin also an orphan? (I think I read someone say that he knew Batman's secret identity but didn't care?) And if so, does he figure that every orphaned boy in Gotham becomes Robin?
...okay, now I want to know how many other boys Joker orphaned in his efforts to get Batman to adopt one and get him to fight crime.
He's dumping Jason outside of Leslie Thompkins' office, from the look of things, so maybe he knows that Batman had links to her?
And as it is, he pretty much HAS to know Batman's ID in the wake of Batman RIP. Every member of the Black Glove attending the event in Arkham saw Batman unmask as he tried to save Jezebel Jet, and Joker was right there.
If this was a plan for the fourth Robin I might buy it. I'd loathe it, but I might find it believable. But for the second? The Joker wouldn't have enough information about Batman and Robin's relationship to be able to set this all up.
This is all getting way too convoluted for me - the best origins have a purity to them - Batman is a young boy who's parents are killed before his eyes, Superman is an orphan.
Once you start injecting time-travel, secret histories and now the Joker basically creating a Robin - no I'm not interested.
I actually kind of like it? (I also like the idea people are floating that Joker did this to a bunch of boys until one struck Bat-gold. I can buy Joker knowing who Batman is and just not caring. He knows who's the mask and who isn't.)
I like that it was done as two unreliable narrators breaking the 4th wall to tell their stories. It leaves room for later writers to come in and tweak things to fit future plot lines as well as giving enough wiggle room to allow us to question things.
Look at the picture - it appears that Jason's outfit as Robin was basically the same as Tim's original costume - so did anyone wear the Pixi-boots and shorts or did they wipe that out for Dick as well?
Joker going on about hurting about anybody's families for just observing what it does, yeah I can see.
Him going to get a kid into sidekick job for some thrill, not so much. I think that's just one of those sociopathic 'I wanna own you' lines of thought to someone he killed. And someone he can't have, as Jason surprise surprise, came alive. I can believe it bothers the Joker so much and he's retconning himself to be 'successful' about something *else* big in Jason's life, in his head.
I find it completely sick and disgusting that he'd have anything more of Jason's life than what he already took away and ruined. Being part of someone's life and formative to them is a *privilege*, whatever Joker did he just doesn't *get* to have it.
I also think it could've been done better than that clown narrating other half of the story. But then I don't want to read Joker at all. I'm mostly like 'no come on give me more of Jason being sweet, talking about his family as if they were saints, without really excusing anything they did.' That part was good.
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no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 05:02 am (UTC)Kinda miss the stealing the hubcaps off the Batmobile thing, but I can understand why they cut it.
Now, Joker planning for Todd to become Robin...it's a huge stretch, I'm not convinced...but depending on how they play the Jason and Joker dynamic during Death of the Family, I think it could work.
no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 11:43 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 05:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 05:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 05:25 am (UTC)It's just the execution. And the fact it loses so much impact in this new, crunched timeline.
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Date: 2012-09-20 07:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2012-09-20 07:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 08:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 05:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 04:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 06:00 am (UTC)...okay, now I want to know how many other boys Joker orphaned in his efforts to get Batman to adopt one and get him to fight crime.
no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 06:10 am (UTC)And as it is, he pretty much HAS to know Batman's ID in the wake of Batman RIP. Every member of the Black Glove attending the event in Arkham saw Batman unmask as he tried to save Jezebel Jet, and Joker was right there.
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Date: 2012-09-20 06:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 06:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 03:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 06:53 am (UTC)edited because i can totally spell you guys
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Date: 2012-09-20 07:08 am (UTC)As is, nope, not interested.
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Date: 2012-09-20 07:31 am (UTC)And people messing with Jason's head is always amusing.
no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 07:42 am (UTC)Getting too silly for me
Date: 2012-09-20 09:19 am (UTC)Once you start injecting time-travel, secret histories and now the Joker basically creating a Robin - no I'm not interested.
Re: Getting too silly for me
From:Re: Getting too silly for me
From:Re: Getting too silly for me
From:no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 10:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 11:25 am (UTC)Not sure where the real Jason got his hotness from, but we don't question the divine.
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Date: 2012-09-20 11:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 11:28 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2012-09-20 01:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 01:24 pm (UTC)I like that it was done as two unreliable narrators breaking the 4th wall to tell their stories. It leaves room for later writers to come in and tweak things to fit future plot lines as well as giving enough wiggle room to allow us to question things.
no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 01:47 pm (UTC)Another question
Date: 2012-09-20 03:07 pm (UTC)Re: Another question
Date: 2012-09-20 03:26 pm (UTC)Sob
Re: Another question
From:no subject
Date: 2012-09-20 07:04 pm (UTC)While I can see the Joker wanting to do something like this, this just feels kind of contrived to me.
no subject
Date: 2012-09-23 10:21 am (UTC)Him going to get a kid into sidekick job for some thrill, not so much. I think that's just one of those sociopathic 'I wanna own you' lines of thought to someone he killed. And someone he can't have, as Jason surprise surprise, came alive. I can believe it bothers the Joker so much and he's retconning himself to be 'successful' about something *else* big in Jason's life, in his head.
I find it completely sick and disgusting that he'd have anything more of Jason's life than what he already took away and ruined. Being part of someone's life and formative to them is a *privilege*, whatever Joker did he just doesn't *get* to have it.
I also think it could've been done better than that clown narrating other half of the story. But then I don't want to read Joker at all. I'm mostly like 'no come on give me more of Jason being sweet, talking about his family as if they were saints, without really excusing anything they did.' That part was good.