Date: 2012-09-23 04:04 am (UTC)
wake_the_dragon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] wake_the_dragon
I could be biased as a Stephanie fan, and I never read much of Barbara's time as Batgirl, but this just doesn't feel like Barbara.

Date: 2012-09-23 04:09 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] darkknightjrk
I think what the difference is that Barbara has almost never been written as a younger crimefighter. In the silver/bronze age, she was already in her 20s, and any hints of youth would probably be hidden under pop culture references, since that was the only way you can distinguish young and adult superheroes back then.

When a lot of folk around here think of Barbara Gordon, they think of the jaded, paranoid black-ops operator that's in her mid-30s. It's like imagining that at some point your mom was the same age as you and you probably had a lot alike.

Date: 2012-09-23 04:31 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] xandrea
That's because she's really Stephanie not Barbara. DiDio forced Miller to change her name to Barbara and color her hair red, but she is unmistakably Stephanie.

Date: 2012-09-23 05:57 am (UTC)
ext_807024: (Default)
From: [identity profile] crazycomiccult.blogspot.com
I could also be biased as a Stephanie fan but I agree, this sounds just like Stephanie when Bryan Q Miller was writing Batgirl.
In my head younger Barbara is young but she's also mature, especially around authority figures. She only really loosens up around her peer group. I also tend to lean towards Batgirl Year One as my idea of young Barbara Gordon

Date: 2012-09-23 09:13 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Absolutely this. It's Steph. We just never got to see Miller's take on Stephanie directly interact with Bruce!Batman during his run. But the banter and dialogue is all Steph.

Date: 2012-09-23 09:49 pm (UTC)
freddylloyd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] freddylloyd
There are some good scenes between Stephanie as Batgirl and Bruce Wayne in the Road Home miniseries. In fact, those scenes are the only part I want.

Date: 2012-09-23 09:56 pm (UTC)
freddylloyd: (Tim)
From: [personal profile] freddylloyd
She's definitely not the Barbara of the 1968-1986 or 1986-2011 continuities, and much closer to the Stephanie of the 1992-2011 continuity. But since the Batman and Superman of this world aren't the same, either, I can take this Barbara on her own terms.

Date: 2012-09-24 08:32 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Frankly, I'd be able to accept this as Barbara if we didn't know the behind the scenes stuff that had gone on.

Date: 2012-09-23 04:25 am (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
So in this Batman actually wears grey facepaint with his mask. For some reason. That's kind of stupid. And that quilted hat-thing-hood is really, really goofy looking. Seriously. I still think that if you want a gritty/realistic Batman look, adapting the kind Year One, not-quite-spandex over armor look is probably your best bet.
I really don't see a problem with the name Batgirl either, I mean, I know it's derivative, but that seems like kind of the point. She's a young girl inspired by Batman, so when it comes time for choose a name she's like "Batman, but I'm a girl, so.... Batgirl! Perfect!" Kind of a nitpicky thing for me to be on about, but I've wanted to say that ever since Aaron Diaz's Art Deco Batman cast Stephanie as Nightwing. So now I've said it.

Date: 2012-09-23 06:01 am (UTC)
ext_807024: (Default)
From: [identity profile] crazycomiccult.blogspot.com
I agreed with the grey facepaint thing at first but the more I think about it the more it makes sense to me. It would help add to the disguise while not being as uncomfortable as a full face mask. How long it takes to put it on and take it off is another story. That quilted hat thing is also stupid but it does remind me of the chainmail helmets that knights used to wear which further reinforces the "Dark Knight" nickname of the character. It would look stupid in mainstream continuity (or real life for that matter) but for the Smallville universe I'm ok with it.

Date: 2012-09-23 08:00 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
The facepaint, as seen in the movies, makes more sense if you want to leave the eyes visible (Black Canary used the same idea in Smallville IIRC) to express emotion, stiff cowls and lenses would be incredibly impractical, plus it IS a good method of making the features around the eye harder to discern

Also the padding around the head makes a lot of sense to me since that's where he's likely to get punched. Head protection is important if you're the World Greatest Concussion Acquirer

Date: 2012-09-23 09:17 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
The facepaint's basically the extension of using makeup around the eyes in the Batman films, yeah. Granted that's more down to a design basis when it comes to the cowls they have the actors wear, but given Smallville actively seems to be following that idea, it makes sense. Adding the facepaint around the lower jaw and mouth makes it more difficult to discern the features, especially when it's famous socialite Bruce Wayne. I'm willing to suspend my disbelief at times, but it makes sense to wear something that blends his mouth and chin in with his costume.

Date: 2012-09-23 02:45 pm (UTC)
fleur_de_liz: (Default)
From: [personal profile] fleur_de_liz
I thought Hal Jordan was the World's Greatest Concussion Acquirer.

(Ted Kord is the World's Greatest Coma Acquirer, for the record.)

Date: 2012-09-23 04:50 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
Well I'm not questioning the head padding, I just think it looks really goofy to show him wearing it but not the helmet. If that little hood wasn't actually up over his head in that scene it wouldn't look so goofy. It serves a sensible purpose for the character, I just don't want to see it.
I don't take any issue with eyeblack seen in the movies, it's probably the only way to keep the actor able to emote and connect, but I still think the facepaint here is kind of weird. As some other people have said, it does work as camouflage and helps to distort his features, but unless Batman really feels that criminals absolutely have to see his scowl, he doesn't have much reason not to just armor his whole head and close the gaping hole in his armor. I suppose it could be argued that a full face mask/helmet would be uncomfortable, but it would offer a bit more protection and I think that if we question how comfortable the costume is to wear then the whole spandex suit paradigm comes crashing down.
Also, for the record, I thought Black Canaries eyeblack looked pretty silly, I mean, it made sense, but I feel like it looked kind of Halloween costume-y, as a fair few of the show's costume's did. And apparently they'll be using a similar look to replicate Ollie's mask on the upcoming "Arrow" TV show, possibly under the justification of it being like hunter's camouflage, which at least justifies it more than Black Canary did. I feel like while that kind of mask/paint works for us an audience, it doesn't make a ton of sense in-universe. It would probably be quicker and more identity concealing for both of them to just tie a TMNT mask around their heads. I guess I'm just angry about the upcoming show's general look, and I'd probably forgive the show if Ollie just had his glorious beard back.

Date: 2012-09-23 09:50 pm (UTC)
rdfox: Joker asking Tim Drake, "'Sup?" from Paul Dini's "Slay Ride" (Default)
From: [personal profile] rdfox
"...and I'd probably forgive the show if Ollie just had his glorious beard back."

So Dinah *won't* be in "Arrow," then?

Date: 2012-09-23 12:22 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
The facepaint makes more sense than simply leaving half of your white skinned face contrasting with the rest of your costume, especially when you're supposed to be hiding in the shadows.

Since this is going for realism, 'goofy' is really going to happen. Have you seen military level protection? When they move it simply looks awkward and goofy, not as cool as Batman's usual get up, but more practical.

Batgirl solidifies her as his sidekick and smaller half, names are important, Nightwing (she's called that here right?) solidifies her as a partner, but something separate, her own.

Date: 2012-09-23 02:35 pm (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
"Nightwing (she's called that here right?) solidifies her as a partner, but something separate, her own."
Nothing says your own like directly stealing another character's identity.

Date: 2012-09-23 03:47 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Nice try, but since she's the first Nightwing in this continuity - it works fine.

She... is the first Nightwing in this continuity right...?

Date: 2012-09-23 05:40 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
Oh great, another Superman who tortures people. That's not going to get old any time soon.

Date: 2012-09-23 12:13 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
I'm sorry, as long as he catches them I have no problem with it. For me that is not torture, it's intimidation.

Date: 2012-09-23 12:24 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
Nah, can still fall into torture, I think it's pretty traumatising falling from such heights with very little certainty that you'll absolutely live, he doesn't know Superman that well.

We as humans generally don't use those tactics, or champion them, neither should he.

Even worse when Nightwing did it in Morrisons run.

Date: 2012-09-23 01:39 pm (UTC)
skjam: Man in blue suit and fedora, wearing an eyeless mask emblazoned with the scales of justice (Default)
From: [personal profile] skjam
He does note that Lois would/will not approve.

Date: 2012-09-23 12:52 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
If he didn't catch them that wouldn't be torture at all. It'd be murder.

Date: 2012-09-23 01:09 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Well, if he didn't catch them, it'd be murder. As it is, it's basically physically exerting the guy for information - granted it's not as messy or as mean-spirited as most forms of torture - and I'm not even sure I'd call it torture, personally - but I can see why someone might view this as torture.

Date: 2012-09-23 02:37 pm (UTC)
kenn_el: Northstar_Hmm (Default)
From: [personal profile] kenn_el
We as a society have so watered down the word torture that it's now used for having to sit in a waiting room or at a red light. It's lost its impact.

Date: 2012-09-23 03:48 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
Are you saying that dropping someone from a great height and making them fear for their lives isn't torture, and is closer to an inconvenience? Because, uh...

Date: 2012-09-23 09:10 pm (UTC)
mas: Solun Eclipse (Default)
From: [personal profile] mas
You do remember that he used tactics like that in his very first story right? Carrying the criminal on the power lines?

Date: 2012-09-23 07:33 am (UTC)
blunderbuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blunderbuss
Oh come on now. That guy doesn't have an elevated heartbeat because, oh I don't know, HE'S BEING HELD ABOUT A MILLION FEET IN THE AIR? Who WOULDN'T have their heart racing?

Date: 2012-09-23 07:53 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Who says Superman is telling the truth about that in this case? He's relying on the terror to get the truth out of him, and on Manheim on being too stupid to think that logically.

Date: 2012-09-24 11:56 am (UTC)
blunderbuss: (Default)
From: [personal profile] blunderbuss
That would make sense, but the panels clearly indicate that Superman is listening to that guy's heartbeat, ergo he's testing him for lying.

Date: 2012-09-24 12:07 pm (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Fair point... Maybe he's sensitive to the minute differences between "blind panic" and "blind panic AND lying"? :)

Date: 2012-09-23 02:20 pm (UTC)
pyrrhocorax: wee shaak ti offers wee aayla a food trade (Younglings)
From: [personal profile] pyrrhocorax
The facepaint makes Batman look like Spy.

Date: 2012-09-23 02:30 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
That would the overly chatty Not!Barbara the Scout, methinks. All she needs is a bat and declarations of 'boink!' when she hits someone.

Date: 2012-09-23 03:23 pm (UTC)
sir_mikael: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_mikael
Excuse you, Superman did not have a Supergirl in Smallville. Supergirl was an a hero who used the name and even did PR stuff, long before Clark inexplicably took up the Super-name or even operated out of shadows.

Lol at that positioning joke.

Date: 2012-09-23 04:22 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Except it's ActuallySteph!Batgirl saying that she 'thought' he already has one. Not that Supergirl actually answered to Superman/Clark at any point in the series.

Date: 2012-09-23 07:41 pm (UTC)
sir_mikael: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sir_mikael
Well both Batman and ActuallySteph!Batgirl seem really unaware of Supergirl. When in fact she would have been like the first publicly known superhero* after the JSA disappeared, which is something that strikes me as really weird for those two not to know (either as paranoid Batman and his sidekick or just as citizens of the Smallville world). I guess Superman just eclipsed her in the eyes of the world when he eventually put on the cape or something.

Basically I don't want Supergirl or the very... odd Smallville-continuity-choices to be forgotten. :)

*My memory is a bit fuzzy, so I could be wrong on this, but she was def up for doing camera interviews and was an active daytime hero, calling herself Supergirl before Clark took up the name.

Date: 2012-09-23 08:05 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Again, at least SecretlySteph!Barbara seems vague on the matter. And I think it is probably quite likely that Superman basically eclipsed Supergirl in terms of fame when he put the cape on, and/or they're assuming (given Not!Steph doesn't want to be Batgirl because of the sidekick connotations) that Supergirl was actually Superman's sidekick all along.

Date: 2012-09-23 05:00 pm (UTC)
thosefew: bored death (Default)
From: [personal profile] thosefew
I figure the face paint might be an invention of Professor Rodor, if you want quick removal. Is Rodor in this continuity?

Date: 2012-09-23 05:12 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
Is Superboy in this? I know he was briefly in the show.

Date: 2012-09-24 03:56 am (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
bringing forth the BEST scene concerning his "creation" ever.

Look at about 1:20

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfROyU4uoCg

Date: 2012-09-25 02:40 am (UTC)
liara_shadowsong: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liara_shadowsong
*giggle* I love that bit so much. "Are you trying to tell me that Conner is the genetic love child of Clark Kent and Lex Luthor?" Yes, yes he is, Lois.

Date: 2012-09-24 04:21 am (UTC)
maxisanacorn: (Default)
From: [personal profile] maxisanacorn
WOW they didn't redraw or all, that body language and hair it's all totally supposed to be Stephanie Brown. Hope someone photoshops her haircolor. That was such a dick move by DC, it's really no wonder most new52 books have lost half of the readers they had when they debuted. Even Batgirl is down half.

Date: 2012-09-25 02:41 am (UTC)
liara_shadowsong: (Default)
From: [personal profile] liara_shadowsong
...That so-called "Barbara" is clearly Steph with a dye job. WTF.

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