majingojira: (Crapfic)
[personal profile] majingojira posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Damnit, it just won't leave my brain. Maybe it's because my intro-to-comics-team is under threat? Maybe I care too much?

 

Maybe it's because I thought of pitches with these characters that were similar (more "Hatchet"/Survivor Man-based, less emotional manipulation, more organic deaths) and have been beaten to it. I don't know, but to deal with my indigestion, I have to air it out. Here are the covers and some speculation I've been tossing around.

#1 Cover

Variant @1, which got all sorts of reactions.

#2

#2 Variant

#3

I think we all saw a version of this one coming.

#3 Variant

Between the solicits and the interviews (Like the one at Newsarama and the new one at CBR) speak of character focus and "Lost" style flashbacks that give me hope for more character driven stuff, extending the story (and putting off most of the deaths) until the writers earns them for himself rather than cashing the check of another writer's narrative. It also looks like he's done his research into the background of these characters. So at least their is that. He also says he doesn't want it to be a meat grinder either, so it looks like he's listening in to the complaints.
The new interview actually does link the Braddock Academy to Captain Britain, so that answer questions.
These quotes I especially hope hold true:

"I wanted to do it because it's a teenager story with stakes and guts. The first challenge of any story is to make the reader care. Care about the characters. Care about the themes. Care what happens in the end. I took the job because I want to make readers care about these kids and what they've been through."

"Arcade doesn't make anyone do anything. That's not his game here. And within that, we're going out of our way to make sure the characters have justifiable reasons for all of their actions. This is a story about what a person is willing to do to survive. It's about how far they'll go to keep themselves and their friends safe."

(This one especially, because that's how I'd run it, just more survival stress oriented)

"Laura isn't a mindless killing machine anymore. In fact, she goes out of her way to avoid killing. Being tossed into Murder World won't change who Laura is. "

"Obviously the characters who survive longer will get more of the spotlight, but none of them are cannon fodder. They all matter to the story in a real way."

It could be good , but it could VERY easily fall to crap. Issue #2, the first death, will be the ultimate test. If it fails, it will fail hard. If it succeeds, then it might just last long enough to tell its story. The solicit is thus:

AVENGERS ARENA #2
DENNIS HOPELESS (W) • KEV WALKER (A)
Cover by CHRIS BACHALO
Variant cover by MIKE OEMING
• ANNIHILATION’s Cammi vs. Deathlocket!
• AVENGER ACADEMY’s Hazmat vs. Deathlocket!
• Who the heck is Deathlocket? And who dies in this issue?
• Plus: Who are the students of the Braddock Academy?
32 PGS./Rated T …$2.99

Honestly, that solicit says to me that the new one, Deathlocket, will bite it. For the narrative, it's the best way to go and the ultiamte test. If he can make us care about Deathlocket before, during or even just after she is killed, then there will be Hope. If not, it will be Hopeless (PUN! I couldn't resist)

The series teeters on the edge of a knife,. Hoping for the best, preparing for the worst.

And now, with the current information, some speculation on 'survivability'. (or "What I'd do if I was assigned this to write"), which may ensure that the opposite happens, but screw it!  This is how I'd do it and how it "should" happen! So says me!

From Space:

Darkhawk: As the most experienced, I doubt he'll want to play by Arcade's rules and try and organize an escape attempt. But there's two problems that could be played well here. One, he was last seen inured in the "Nova" series, with the gem imbedded in his chest. Second, in the Loners series, it manifested a second armor for someone fighting him. That might tip the balances of power in a clash. He might fail in his escape attempt and thus dishearten the others from trying, resigning them to their fate or to a new plan. If he does die, the amulet would likely be passed on to someone else with either little/no physical power like Juston, Chase or Cammi. He'd leave behind the "Raptor" arc for Cosmic Marvel, the Loners and his girlfriend, Miki Musashi (Turbo). If he passes on the mantel to someone else, these plot threads can partially survive. My take: I'd probably kill him.

Cammi: I believe we have a catalyst to get to killin' . It's my speculation, based on the solicit, that Hazmat will be saved by Cami who snipes/blindside's Dethlocket before threatening to do the same to Hazmat at issues end. Reading her origin and her story, this girl is not mentally stable and I can easily see her wracking up a body count of at least 2, maybe more. Because of this, she is unlikely to survive the event herself. My take: Dead Villain Walking, but she'll have to earn it first.  I'd also have her finale be her getting the Darkhawk armor before being purged of it and killed.

From the Streets:

Nico Minoru: Leader of the Runaways and vastly powerful (if people remember that she's able to not tap into the spell limiting options of the Staff of One anymore after the upgrade her Grandmother gave her). Hopeless' assessment is pretty good, but when push comes to shove, she'll defend herself lethally. And woe betide anyone who angers her. The girl can be creative with her punishments. However, if she goes down, the Runaways themselves will fall apart. This make some want to see her survive this ordeal. It will leave her even more jaded than before, but I want her to live damnit! The Staff of One might be able to cheat her death now that she's much more tightly connected to the staff. Instant healing, time stop recovery, teleport to saftey--something. If she is injured and her staff taken, that may lead to her first kill this thing. As the last time it happened, the staff got pissy and summoned a draconic horror to devour the offender--who was a practiced sorcerer. I doubt any of the kids would be that well prepared. My Take: her death would come at too high a cost. Let her live, damnit!

Chase Stein: He claims to have killed before, but the veracity is nebulous at best. He certainly can be at least apparently ruthless enough, and has good instincts to survive. However, he just got back Old Lace, so killing him immediately would be rather odd and off putting. He may have Old Lace with him, but that hasn't been confirmed. He may have his fistigons 2.0, he may have his X-ray specs, we don't know. even without these, he can be formidable (if goofy). His tech expertise might be useful if they're willing to scrap the sentinel a bit (doubtful). Still, his death would not lose much, and I can think of several heroic sacrifice scenarios that would do him in well. My Take: Probably gonna die, but unlikely to occur early on.

From the Avengers

X-23: Yeah, she's a bit too high profile to die without it being a blatant "SEE! NO ONE IS SAFE!" especially if it happens early on. given the strength of her healing factor, even then, she would be easily "killed' and then come back later on. There's also the Trigger scent thing to worry about if Arcade does decide to 'ramp it up' as it were. She'll defend her friends, but will not kill unless she has to. My Take: Lives.

Reptil: Another one with TV exposure, and a hero at heart. His priority will be on escape over fighting others. With the gem now full accepting him, his death is unlikely. Even if it does occur, he may disappear afterwards like Crusader (remember him?) or appear to die only for the gem to revive him. He's the chosen one of a dinosaur dimension, who has a fated death. Even if he dies here, he will likely come back. At least, I'd have him die and then come back a short while later. He'd leave behind a girlfriend and that dimension. My Take: He'd live in the end, but he'd have a very close call or 5.

Hazmat and Mettle: These two either live together or die together. Their romance was one of the best things in Academy. Honestly, I fear that would put them on the chopping block for many writers. It's an easy way to do it. Both would be driven into homicidal rages if it was done. Hell, Hazmat's body, if it were left around, could kill people vicariously. Mettle is physically the strongest one there, next to the Sentinel, and his inability to feel/taste/smell could work to his detriment (tracking devices, proximity grenades snuck on his back, etc). Hazmat might go nuclear again and kill several at once. Both are powerful, that is a mark against them, sadly. My Take: I'd want to keep them alive, but continual peril would be the name of the game. No matter what, they're in it together.

Juston and the Sentinel: Juston's is the least well known of these, but his appearances in Academy got me interested in him and his own series was actually rather fun. He'd leave behind a "Missing Mom" plot and a girlfriend (as well as Dad and younger brother). He has a pretty big bulls-eye on him. He's a nice guy who screwed up once in an effort to get back at bullies, and regretted it ever since. I doubt he'd be able to order the Sentinel to kill, but it might have other ideas. My Take: Justin dies, but then is revived as the Sentinel fuses with him with the words: "Primary Directive: Unit will not abandon Justin. Not Ever. No Matter What." He becomes an Omega Sentinel. He might die again later, but that scene is just too juicy not to use.

The Others:

Dethlocket: Honestly, the best way to take her would be to introduce us to her, make us care in issue #2, then off her . That's how I'd do it as the first death of the series. Anyone else would be cashing in the check of another writer.

"Axbro": As dubbed by 4chan, nothing else can be said about him, but one rumor is that he's one of Colossus' kids from the Savage land.  I can't speculate any further than that, but that may be enough of a connection to lt him live.  It depends on how far he goes to survive if that is true.  That could do him in.

"Not-Hazmat": Presence of a second character in a containment suit does not bode well for Hazmat (and thus, not for Mettle).   Given I have a stronger attachment to the older characters, I have a bias to keeping them alive over this new one.  But the presence of overlap is a sign that one of them is going to die.

The Braddock Acdemy:

We know nothing of them beyond it being basically a privileged private version of AA in Britain. This may make some of them more ruthless than the others. There's 3 remaining slots and we don't know who they are or what their alignment will be. But honestly, I'd kill all but one or two of them if I had to. I'd make people care, then kill them. That's the real trick. It's the best bed to put any villainous character who will try and survive according to Arcade's rules. Given their probable privilege, layers of disbelief about what's happening are definitely coming.

Arcade:

Simply put, he cannot be allowed to live long after this. At best, I'd kill him either in the finale (or pre-final issue) or, to buck trends, have Arcade be the first death. The heroes manage to find Arcade almost immediately, but not where the kids are. Leaving everything the kids do completely on them. That would be a twist and half. But either way, he's gotta die. And it has to be from one of the survivors for it to mean anything. If Wolveirne, Tigra or Hank Pym tracks him down and does him in, it just won't work. Even the other Runaways wouldn't have the same oomph emotionally. It's gotta be them. And he's gotta die.

Man, all this talk about death just gets me thinking of an "Ideon: Be Invoked" AMV. I even hear some of its theme music when looking at the covers and reading about it. Now that was a Kill'em'all done well. (Note: This video is NOT for the faint of heart! You have been warned!).
 



Though I do hope we avoid LolTomino style deaths. IE: "Sudden character depth added, then BLARGH I AM DEAD!"

 

I hope there's a reset button for this series. Keep the emotional trauma and their lives. To live is to suffer, and it's suffering (witht he attempts to overcome that suffering), not death, that really sells. Death being only a spark for the suffering of others. Its why the "Women in Refrigerators" thing is used and why it's seen as poor form. It's an overpriced way to get what is wanted.

Those are most of my thoughts on it.  I needed to air it out.  Part of me wants to like this series, but the other part wars "Remember how you held out for Beechen's Cassandra Cain?"  Let's hope things turn out better.  But I'm bracing for the worst.

 


Date: 2012-09-28 08:15 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
Wait, that Battle Royale style logo is the series' actual logo? I thought they did that just for the BR parody cover. Sheesh.

Date: 2012-09-28 08:18 pm (UTC)
filthysize: (Default)
From: [personal profile] filthysize
I really like the Lord of the Flies one, though.

Date: 2012-09-28 08:18 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Yeah, I'm still not buying this book on the basis of Hopeless' interview technique; The guy might've deployed his best fucking poker face or been bluffing like an absolute pro, but lines like 'I can't wait to get to killing them' or whatever it was he said in one interview really, really rubs me the wrong way.

Especially when it comes to two of the characters that basically got me into comics back in 2003. If Marvel decides to kill off Nico Minoru, then I am literally not spending another penny on Marvel. Ever.

Also, can someone please start suing Marvel for these shitty cover rip-offs? The first one was fine, but seriously; WE GET WHAT YOU'RE GOING FOR, MARVEL. You don't need to explicitly show you're ripping off two properties that feature children killing one another.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] mrstatham - Date: 2012-09-28 08:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2012-09-28 08:25 pm (UTC)
auggie18: (Default)
From: [personal profile] auggie18
My intro-to-comics team was Academy X, so I can sympathize with you there. My guess is that most of the new kids will die and a few of the more obscure C-listers. (Sorry Juston, lookIng at you.)

Unless I hear great things about this, I don't think I'll be picking it up. It just seems sorta generic. And weird that Arcade is the one behind it. Didn't the Academy already kick his ass? And if that's why he's after them, then they should be at the bottom of the very long list of people who've kicked Arcade's ass.

Date: 2012-09-28 08:52 pm (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
And again, the problem with this is pointed out. Arcade's already had his ass kicked by more low-key kids than this - they were the Young Allies - and this is meant to be about him making a comeback, to gain some respect; And naturally, you do that by trying to kill a bunch of kids who have all manner of connections to the wider MU and have fought off all manner of shit on their own;

Oh, and one of those kids is basically Wolverine's daughter. I don't know what the current situation between Logan and Laura is, but hurt the kid and I imagine Arcade wouldn't have long to say his prayers. It's just dumb on every level.

Date: 2012-09-28 08:26 pm (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
I'm pretty sure Darkhawk is a grown ass man. I mean, nothing against the character, but he's not really a kid hero anymore.
I hope that Axbro lives, and is officially named Axbro.
I'm with you on the reset button quite frankly, while I have nothing against killing of characters, I feel like it's best done with characters explicitly created to die (ex: X-Statix had a very high turnover rate, but it never felt cheap or like a waste of a good character because it was well written a part of the book's hook) not with characters that have been created by others and have tons of potential. Possibly the only death I would want for this book is the Juston and the Sentinel one you outlined, because my heart would melt and I would die blubbering like a baby.
I'm curious about the status quo of the series; Is Braddock Academy a new Murderworld set up by Arcade? Is Arcade working from behind the scenes to manipulate the Academy, which is actually legitimate? And I'm still not sure about Arcade's involvement in this, he doesn't seem like a subtle enough villain for this. He'd probably get bored after about five minutes of the high school drama, flick a switch, and turn the whole thing into a Westworld homage, complete with Yul Brynner.

Date: 2012-09-28 09:28 pm (UTC)
theflames: The Joker best expression. (Default)
From: [personal profile] theflames
The Chris Bachalo cover is amazing.

Date: 2012-09-28 10:03 pm (UTC)
kaileighblue: Icon of a character from Pumpkin Scissors (Default)
From: [personal profile] kaileighblue
Why is chase there since he's got no powers unless Lace is there too and they haven't shown her. If they her again I think people would shit bricks. I know I would. I don't want chase to die either. I don't love Nico but she's a big part of Runaways and killing her in some random shitbook probably officially marks the end.

Why can't they just let them go peacefully instead of rubbing our faces in it.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] kaileighblue - Date: 2012-09-29 01:18 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2012-09-28 11:15 pm (UTC)
arise: (mass effect ♥ bullshit.)
From: [personal profile] arise
oh my lord what is wrong with their faces in that number two variant?

Date: 2012-09-28 11:39 pm (UTC)
darkblade: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darkblade
With the Hungers Games and Lord of the Flies based covers we are a Running Man or Most Dangerous Games rip-off away from a Bingo.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] salinea - Date: 2012-09-29 12:30 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2012-09-28 11:41 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] spacebetween
If they really wanted to do this, they should have made a new slate of characters and avoid using pre-existing ones. That or just file it away as an alternate reality instead of potentially killing off some fan favorites.

Date: 2012-09-29 04:22 pm (UTC)
curlyjo1: Shrinking Violet (Default)
From: [personal profile] curlyjo1
But killing is EXCITING! It'll make people buy the book! *eyeroll*

Date: 2012-09-29 12:14 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kingofmadcows
I hope they don't gimp the more powerful/skilled characters so the weaker characters can keep up. Darkhawk has taken on Ultron before, X-23 has Wolverine's abilities and was trained from birth to be an assassin, and Hazmat is basically a walking nuclear meltdown. These characters are extremely dangerous and it would be really stupid if they went down too easily. In fact, people should be afraid to kill Hazmat since for all they know, she could go off like an atomic bomb when she dies.

Date: 2012-09-29 12:44 am (UTC)
darkblade: (Default)
From: [personal profile] darkblade
I figured out why this bothers me so much more than similar stories. Not just because it is lazy and bandwagon hopping. Not just because it is killing long standing characters for no other reason than because they can.

It is missing a point both stories it is ripping off understood. While some might die due to misunderstandings and pressure, a game like this cannot work without some genuine psychos in the mix. That is why Hunger Games had the careers. That is why Battle Royale had Kazuo and Mitsuko. Avengers Arena is nothing but heroes (unless Baddrock Academy has the monsters) we have nothing but people the readers don't want to see die. That's a good way to develop apathy for your story.

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Date: 2012-09-29 01:56 am (UTC)
ap0cryphal: Gap Toothed Smile (Default)
From: [personal profile] ap0cryphal
man, why couldn't Marvel just give teens to Paul Tobin or someone similar who can write teen drama without resorting to murdertimes?

I mean, alls i'm seeing here is murdertimes = DRAMA! ANGST! SURIVIVAL! so you know what, fuck this noise, i got enough murdertimes and child abuse in my real world news.

also Darkhawk is definitely dying in this book because he's pretty much the closest thing in this crowd to an adult and we all know what happens to adults in shitty angsty grimdark YA stories.

Date: 2012-09-29 02:20 am (UTC)
azure_flame_god003: (Default)
From: [personal profile] azure_flame_god003
Well let's see these kids are connected to the Avengers, X-Men, there's Darkhawk and Cammi so Cosmic heroes might have something to say and if Drax is alive or not I can't tell what continuity Avengers Assemble's in. So yeah I can't see this ending well for Arcade at all.

Date: 2012-09-29 05:29 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] spacebetween
It is said to be 616 continuity despite the headaches it results in. This is what happens when the editors barely do their jobs.

Date: 2012-09-29 03:27 am (UTC)
goggle_kid: (Juston)
From: [personal profile] goggle_kid
I've gone from absolutely HATING the concept of this series to bracing for the worst but thinking of ways it could work.

I'm going out on a limb and guess that Arcade isn't the actual big bad of this series, and it's going to turn out the kids are in the Mojoverse or something like that.

Both Sentinel and Runaways are two books that I absolutely took delight in when they were launched and the idea of Nico, Chase, or Juston just fills me with dread. Although I will admit your idea of Juston as an Omega Sentinel does sound kinda badass.

Date: 2012-09-29 04:36 am (UTC)
silverhammerman: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverhammerman
Mojo as the villain would totally make sense, of COURSE he's the kind of character who would force a bunch of kids to do a Battle Royale/Hunger Games ripoff. The story could even be kind of cheeky about it and have Mojo standing in for the boring, unoriginal executives. Plus, Mojo would probably be able to bring these kids back to life, which would be great, because I don't want any of them to die.
Usually I don't even like Mojo, but here I think he'd totally work.
Edited Date: 2012-09-29 04:37 am (UTC)

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Date: 2012-09-29 05:09 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] kingofmadcows
I'm just hoping that X-23 survives because I would really like to see a series with her inspired by "Blade Runner" but from the perspective of the Replicants where X-23 would be spiritual successor to Roy Batty.

Date: 2012-09-29 07:43 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
They won't kill her. Baby Girlverine's gonna be/partly already is a cash cow they can milk just as much as her old man, in time.

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Date: 2012-09-29 06:01 am (UTC)
zabilac: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zabilac
The fifth cover reminds me of the Hunger Games.

Date: 2012-09-29 10:16 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Probably intentional.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] darkblade - Date: 2012-09-29 02:49 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2012-09-29 08:17 am (UTC)
northstarfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] northstarfan
Marvel's promoting the book one way, the writer is trying to spin it another.
Given how editorially-driven things at the Big Two are have been in recent years, when TPTB are promoting something with "kids die!" as the big hook, my faith in which way it's ultimately going to go is not with the writer.

Still passing on this.

Date: 2012-09-29 10:20 am (UTC)
espanolbot: (Default)
From: [personal profile] espanolbot
Although I'm only really familiar with Nico, I don't really want anyone to die in this.

I'm just tired of storylines where they gather up superfolk and kill them off to cull the numbers.

Was sick of it in Teen Titans. Was tired of it in Salvation Run. Was fed up of it in the Initiative.

Just this once can't everyone live? Even though the threat of death that they're under won't seem real if some of them don't die, I guess. *sigh*

Date: 2012-09-29 10:29 am (UTC)
kusonaga: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kusonaga
Mojo'd be a perfect fit for the bad guy. I don't really like what they look to be doing with Arcade. Killing kids was never his style.

Date: 2012-09-29 11:14 am (UTC)
dragontail: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragontail
Long-time lurker, here, moved to comment for the first time by this thread.

I'm really, really worried about this series. And upset. And annoyed. I look at the cast list and see a whole swathe of "s/he was my introduction to comics" characters. I feel like Marvel's seeking to trade on that... bring us all a'running because we fear the deaths of our entry-level friends. Like Marvel's going to make money off our anxieties.

You, my fellow commentors, have mentioned your faves in this bunch... for me it's Darkhawk. His original series came at just the right time for me as a comic book reader, giving me a character I could follow from the ground up. I've kept up with Chris Powell ever since and own every single appearance he's made in comics (right down to single-panel cameos) and the (extremely sparse) mechandise on which he's featured. Now I'm going to be buying this series and hating it all the way.

So yes: solidarity, my friends. I, too, am bracing for the worst.

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Date: 2012-09-29 01:49 pm (UTC)
lorriek: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lorriek
I've already posted another intelligent, well-worded post (okay, some people might call it a rant) at CBR about this. I am so turned off by the mere existence of this book that what little good will I had toward Marvel is almost gone. Journey into Mystery only gets you so far, Marvel.

I don't even want to know what happens in it. If the characters I love live it just means that somebody else's favorites will die. And everyone will be rooting for the new characters to die just so the already established characters will have a better chance of survival. It's just gross. "'Kill or be killed' is pretty much the perfect allegory for high school," Hopeless said. I have to know, did Hopeless go to the high school in "Heathers" or something? And how does a handful of kidnapped kids being pitted against each other by a psychopath remotely resemble the high school experience?

(no subject)

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Date: 2012-09-29 09:30 pm (UTC)
yvonmukluk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] yvonmukluk
Quick question: what has Mr. Hopeless actually written before?

Because I'm not familiar with his work.

And I'm not really sure it's appropriate for a writer to make his debut by killing off a bunch of established characters. I don't care if it was editorially mandated, it's just not cricket.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] thehood - Date: 2012-10-19 05:57 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2012-10-06 03:55 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] thezmage
I think you make an interesting point: nearly everyone who dies here will leave behind some form of weapon. The staff of one, a sentinel, a big metal body, an adamantium skeleton, etc. Makes me think that might be Arcade's plan after all.

And I do think Arcade will be an early death. The scariest cars have no drivers.

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