AvX: The Winner *spoilers for AvX*

[auggie18]

So, I slammed this out pretty much as soon as I read the end of AvX.



I think my biggest problem is how smug the Avengers are now that it's done. They're acting like they were right the whole time and like none of it was their fault when, yeah, it kinda was. This whole event was over nothing. (Scott doesn't have any reason to be smug either. Looks like he's gonna be the new Brotherhood leader or something now.

I didn't put anything in about how they portrayed the Phoenix. That deserves it's own big, angry comic.



 

Comments

[theflames]

Scott was surprisingly matter-of-factly about the whole thing.

'I was right' - done. Admits he's a horrible person. No more than that.

'I was partially wrong' - Cap says, while reminded Scott how low and vile he is.

'...' - Wolverine wanted to kill the kid. He probably comes out looking the worst if we all bother to glance in his direction for a serious couple of seconds. He would've doomed the universe. He teaches a school btw.

[long_silence]

This pretty much sums up AVX in my opinion

[shadowpsykie]

hehehehehehe

i have to laugh in order to stop from crying because this is in fact true....

[majingojira]

Hehehe Nice.

[ravenrants]

Oh, my God, who made that, it's PERFECT.

[long_silence]

I think someone on the CBR forums

[lucky_gamble]

Oh lord I so agree and love this post.

[trobadora]

This is made of awesome.

[protogarrett]

THIS.

[majingojira]

Yeah, I didn't follow the event at all and just from what little I did see, it was not well thought out.

It was honestly just an excuse to have X vs. Y for a while.

God, they need to bring back the UCW stuff. At least THEN it would make sense and be funny.

[viridian5]

In AvX, nobody wins, including the readers....

[mesmiranda]

Cosigned.

[nefrekeptah]

Except for those of us you liked the series, you mean. We did win, and we like were it's going next.

[viridian5]

That's another possible response.

I'm on the side of the folks who felt the characters were given idiot balls and dragged into OOC directions to make things happen that wouldn't have happened otherwise and create yet another hero vs. hero spectacle where both sides look bad. After that, I don't trust where they'll take it next, though I hope I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[nefrekeptah]

And I'm on the side were I think that no they weren't; Cap was acting to save the world, Cyclops was desperate and trying to save the mutants. Neither was terribly out of character, and both were acting what they thought was for the best. The fact that neither of them were fully in the right and they both come out looking bad was the best part of the story - I'd go so far to say the point of the story. I like it when the heroes have legitimate grievances with each other and neither is fully in the right, and sometimes you're not sure if you're rooting for the right side - it's a far site more interesting then the standard "stupid misunderstanding" dust up that we've seen fifty thousand times.

[wizardru]

To me, someone who didn't have anything invested in the series other than a few decades of love for the characters involved: it was kind of a push. Everyone involved had to take a double-dose of stupid pills to get the story rolling and keep it moving.

The idea is not a bad one on it's face. The problem is how it was executed, IMHO. Having Cyclops become more like Magneto isn't that far of a stretch (though for the Cyclops I grew up with, it would have been, but that's a long time ago). No, the problem for me would be that the characterization of all these people seems forced to be off just to meet the needs of the story, even from their regular titles.

Sometimes this character resembles Captain America and other times he has nothing in common with him. The inconsistency between the Cap who was sure he could save the Winter Soldier and stopped the Red Skull in his body? This doesn't seem like that guy.

I think parts of this were very good. I just wish Marvel could get their editors to agree on characterization. Or figure out what the Beast is supposed to look like from one issue to the next.

[salinea]

well, don't be smug then. Some of us are busy raging/weeping/cursing the earth that saw this comics written/projecting to go back in time to prevent it/turning ourselves into super-villains as a reaction to it/crying BEENNNDIIIIIIIS/FRAAAAAACTIIIIOOON/AAAARRRROOOOON! with a fist raised against the sky.

Sheesh, if we can't even overreact in peace now.

[northstarfan]

Motto. Even disregarding the quality of storytelling, this was not 12 issues worth of plot.

Big Two Comics - Padded storylines printed on wrinkly paper with cheap-ass ink at magazine prices. Blech.

[mastiff]

This is why I've given up on comics that aren't creator-controlled. Unrealistic deadlines, competing creative teams and a lack of investment in the stories or characters just make for cynical plot-twist mash-ups that make no internal sense at all.

Though it provides fantastic fodder for satirists, which keeps me from losing hope altogether :)

[leoboiko]

By the way, which creator-controlled comics do you recommend these days?

[q99]

If I can give my 2 cents, Atomic Robo, Fred Perry's Gold Digger, Hellboy, BPRD.

[leoboiko]

Your cents are appreciated! I read all but Gold Digger. The, er, “empoweredness” of the blonde protagonist in promo images is putting me off a little, but I'll take a closer look later.

[q99]

Yea, there's fanservice in the character designs, but if it helps, it's equal-opportunity, it's not all about the fan service (characters will often wear casual, non-revealing outfits. Fights are not framed so that butts are always facing the reader, or worse, the dreaded butt-boob twist. People will stand and fight in poses like they're actual human beings. There is a wide variety of body types), and it's also not the primary reason I like it. The series is about adventurers, they explore, they get into fights, they figure out ancient riddles, and they've got lots of entertaining rivals and villains.

It's also got good variety- one 3-issue arc may be primarily about the martial artist characters, the next about more superheroic ones, and such. It's a pretty well-populated world. Individual stories tend to be on the shorter side too. They may play into a bigger arc, but more happens per issue than the decompressed DC/marvel comics. It'll be "this issue," or "these 2-3 issues," tell the story of one encounter with the bad guy, or stage in a journey, or such. If you picked up an issue now, you might not know Dreadwing's history, but you'll know he's trying to rescue/recruit evil villain Y, and that you want the heroes to stop him, and you don't have to wait 4 months for the results.

[beoweasel]

I haven't read GD in years, I need to start picking it up again. :(

[q99]

It's got a pretty nice story arc going at the moment. Dreadwing's collected minions and weapons, and is trying to invade Jade.

[northstarfan]

I generally wait and buy the digital collections. Excellent value for money, those!

[writeofway]

Locke & Key, Atomic Robo, The Goon, Bone, Hellboy, also I'd check out the Mega Man recent series (It is surprisingly deep and smart for a comic aimed for kids) Also, look for Irredeemable, the Darkwing Duck trades from Boom!

[northstarfan]

I put together a couple of lists of freebie issues here and here.

My personal faves/recommendations from there:

Bad Medicine
Beasts of Burden
Chew
Courtney Crumrin
Elephantmen
Saga
The Sixth Gun
Strange Embrace

[mastiff]

Similar to q99: Hellboy, BPRD and Walking Dead are at the top of my list, although I don't recommend walking dead to people anymore; it's a bit past its expiry date.

Add Invincible to that list. I've always wanted a superhero comic that has a single writer for internal consistency. There are others out there, but I've been a big fan of this one in large part because of the art.

My local comic shops don't carry Atomic Robo, which is a shame, because it's absolutely brilliant.

I've never heard of Gold Digger; I'll need to hunt that down I think.

One last comic I'd add to the list is Freak Angels; the series ended, but it explored some interesting ideas of a modern pantheon.

[halloweenjack]

I still like to refer to John Rogers' post following the cancellation of the Blue Beetle book pre-reboot: "Wow. It's almost as if basing your entire business model around a series of must-buy big event crossovers in a market with limited purchasing resources hurts your midlist." It doesn't help creatively and doesn't necessarily make a lot of sense financially in the long run, but they keep doing them...

[mastiff]

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up. Anytime you find a DC or Marvel comic you like, there's a high chance that it will lose the characteristics that you find appealing due to an editorial decision that aren't based on what's best for the story, but on purely business considerations. Maybe they need to cut the current story short to shoehorn it into the summer EVENT!, or maybe it's time to replace the creative team, or maybe they want to reboot the entire line and retell the origin. Again. The creative process has become so divorced from the comic production with those two (and others) that I won't touch them with a ten-foot pole, even when the current creative team is producing quality work.

[nefrekeptah]

You know, that can happen in ANY comic, creator owned or not.

[mastiff]

Absolutely. But while that CAN happen with creator-controlled comics, it's an ABSOLUTE CERTAINTY when you're dealing with 60+ old character properties.

[nefrekeptah]

Having read many comics with a 60+ year history, I can safely say that no, it's not an "absolute certainty." It's a bigger risk, yes, but not an inevitability.

[mastiff]

Can you name any? I'd like to know what I've been missing.

To be specific, what characters have been allowed to grow with age without requiring a reboot; hasn't gone through several versions of personality depending on the what's socially popular, and doesn't need their origin updated every decade? What comics have not had their stories hijacked by company-wide events? That completely leaves out DC and Marvel.

[silverzeo]

..... surprise Scott didn't try to bring in Civil War in there....

[halloweenjack]

I just read the scan that this is based on, and... wow. One of the most hated scenes in Marvel's recent history was the post-Civil War scene where Sally Floyd corners a beaten and humiliated Cap and lectures him about how he's out of touch because he doesn't understand social media. Now Cap does the same for Cyclops, not as obnoxiously as Sally, but that's a pretty tough act to beat.

[lorriek]

I was thinking the same thing.

[azure_flame_god003]

So join us next year for New Mutants vs. Guardians of the Galaxy.






.... What? We ran out of conflicts that make any semblance of sense.

[drmcninja]

That also couldn't fail to be the most awesome thing ever.

[darkblade]

Runaways vs the Inhumans?

Fantastic Four vs Legion of Monsters?

Young Warriors vs Power Pack?

Young Allies vs X-Factor?

[spacebetween]

I agree with some of that strip, but disagree with other parts. As it is both teams can't pretend they did nothing wrong. So it annoys me when X-Men fans are citing the X-Men were right and Avenger fans are claiming the same thing. Really both teams were right and wrong for various reasons. So if you going victimise one team you can't do it without doing the same to the side.

As it is there a few times when I supporting one team more then another, then I would switch the support to the other team. At the same time there were points where I supported neither side and other where I supported both teams.

The writing was rather sloppy from the start because the two sides had to fight because this is what the event called for. I really wish they used a creative staff that understood the aspects of both teams, the members on those teams and the Phoenix.

Instead we got a crap load of out character moments, writing staff ignoring things already pre-established and a lot of WTF moments. This was Civil War all over again.

[salinea]

He hehehe.