scans_daily | Rogue's Opinion on Wanda

From:

salinea

well, we'll see how the issue goes, but chances are this makes more sense than anything in it :D

From:

oddityangel

And man, am I getting sick of people punching Wanda in the face.

Hear, hear! At this point it just seems mean spirited.

I like Rogue's miffed expression in the third panel.

From:

theflames

... nah... she hasn't gotten jail time - so this is fair. Least of her problems really.

From:

darkknightjrk

Well, I guess you could say that she had temporary insanity--but people who commit crimes like that still end up going to therapy or something. Maybe have her on the couch with Doc Samson or something?

From:

theflames

Temporary insanity that she induced (see: Children's Crusade) so therapy and prison. A space on the couch seems like a must.

From:

whitesycamore

but people who commit crimes like that still end up going to therapy or something.

Or something. They end up in forensic mental health services, which are often worse places to be than prisons, since you can be detained there indefinitely without any fixed sentence. The psychiatric treatment is also likely to feature forced medication far more heavily than psychological therapy.

These are just some of the reasons why, despite the myth, it's usually not in anyone's best interests to plead insanity unless they really are legally insane.

From:

auggie18

Yeah, there's an episode of Law and Order in which they tackle that. A perp pleads insanity and gets it. He laughs in the DA's face and she just stands there, looking at him. Then he makes it to the clinic and yeah. Not a nice place.

Also the plot of that Arkham Asylum book (the one with the "Great White Shark."), though who knows why that dude thought that Arkham was a better alternative to prison.

From:

protogarrett

Agreed. She has a lot more punches in the face coming, insanity or not. For example, that studnet who drowned because his power turned off, or how Jono was hospitalized. I think Jono and the parents of that kid might get a punch in and be rather justified in it.

From:

theflames

And honestly if all your going to get is a dozen punches to the face rather than a fair trial, therapy, jail time and a fair ban of using your powers (since she clearly isn't responsible with them). Then are you really gonna complain that you're getting the short end of the stick?

From:

oddityangel

Honestly, I don't understand WHY she isn't isn't getting those things (a trial, therapy, jail time), those things are about justice and rehabilitation, they serve a purpose. Repeated punches to the face? As I said, that's just mean spirited. It accomplishes nothing of value except appealing to some kind of (extremely petty!) sense of vengeance, we're supposed to cheer these people for punching a woman in the face? Not likely. As a reader I get no satisfaction from it, I don't feel it's 'justice,' at this point it's just damaging to all the characters (and writers) involved.

From:

drmcninja

I'm with you. Yeah, the writers sucker punched her to begin with to kick start that whole thing, and it wasn't really fair, but for something that was such a big deal, some continuity would be nice.

They take genuine psychopathic murderers and sit them down with psychiatrists. Even Deadpool sees one, and sometimes he just pretends to see one in his head. And these are genuine sociopaths with no chance at getting better. But nobody is willing to tell Wanda to sit down and just talk it out with somebody professional? Literally all of the Avengers just pretend that nothing happened, so all we get is angry people punching her. And she deserves it, but its really not what she deserves. Get her some help. Now, post-Civil War Tony, he deserved those punched. Somebody hop in a time machine and take your rage out on him.

From:

theflames

Hey don't look at me, the Avengers are the ones who don't want her to have all those things, 'they take care of their own' which means she gets a slap on the wrist.

I want her to get Jail time, therapy, nicer hair, and rehabilitation, perhaps a sex and the city makeover too - but instead, she doesn't even have to proportionally repent, she just gets to go back on the field.

These are all in story decisions, so if they won't do things by the book and be fair and all JUSTICE! about it, then she can at the very least get a few punches from the people she's hurt here and there, she isn't getting the short stick.

And violence will always be mean-spirited, this definitely isn't petty though. These characters have seen someone get away with mass murder, if all they're doing is punching her, they're being the bigger man.

From:

theflames

Honestly, i agree whit you - she should be getting these things. But she isn't - and she isn't getting the short end of the stick with these... what, two punches she's gotten so far.

Not even a mob. Just punches, then they move on. This isn't appropriate punishment, but the Avengers really stopped caring about that when it comes to their own.

From:

oddityangel

Well, that's sort of what I mean, it's not appropriate punishment given the severity of her crimes. I don't blame characters for hating her, wanting her punished, but if her crimes are that monstrous TREAT them as such, don't punch her in the face and leave it at that. That almost trivializes her crimes. When I say 'petty' I mean their actions of are of small importance, they're not in proper proportion to the wrongs that have been committed.

I admit I'm sympathetic when it comes to Wanda, and I hate the way her character has been used for...well, what seems like ages now, but they (the writers) have damaged the character to the point where they can't expect her to be a viable character without severe consequences OR damage control, and I don't think punches to the face cover it. It's like if everyone who ever met Magneto kicked him in the knee and hissed at him about that submarine he sunk...and then proceeded as normal. If you want justice seek justice, but hurting someone for the sake of hurting them is not going to accomplish anything.

Edited Date: 2012-10-06 12:18 pm (UTC)

From:

theflames

This is very true, in that respect - it is petty.

But that's commentary on the situation no? The Avengers are protecting her, every character knows that, they could scream for justice; but they're mutants, mutants who have just looked very bad after AVX, they couldn't get it if they wanted it.

Cap already made his stance in Children's Crusade, and is following through with it, all they can do is punch her or argue with her, here and there, they can't get anything more because when they tried, they were shot down.

(though marvel superheroes truly seem to think they are above the law -- Cap just made a huge decision on a mass murderer, he's friends with and hasn't told any authority or called for a trial.)

From:

leoboiko

Because it’s such a great idea to keep punching the reality-warping timebomb?

From:

auggie18

...yes?

Wanda's a horribly broken person due to the fact she's been repeatedly possessed and traumatized for most of her adult life. Her body was magically influenced since pre-birth to be predisposed towards possession and metal manipulation and villains have really taken advantage of that. She's had mental breakdowns before in the past and people keep putting her on the front lines of universal conflicts.

So, yes, I do think repeatedly punching a woman with severe mental problems in the face is giving her the short end of the stick.

From:

mrstatham

I have to be frank and say I'm really surprised at this point that the moderators haven't stepped in with anything to say about the way a good number of people on here are advocating Wanda being punched in the face and saying she basically deserves it.

From:

theflames

Because to be frank, when you look at all the explanations of the characters demise, there's that real glaring issue of her working with Doom and making an even bigger problem than needed to be made. Insanity card is all fine and dandy when you don't induce your own breakdown. She wasn't being responsible with her powers when she asked Doom for more. She doesn't know the limits and she did it anyway.

Hell people here call for Scotts death, mans gone through enough to legitimately break from the pressure. But whatever on that.

From:

mrstatham

I've never really seen anyone on here call for Scott's death, but again, people seem to be all for Wanda being battered for what she did, despite the fact that a - she's been mentally fragile in the past, b - she lost her children, and c - I don't want to accept some piece of shit bolted-on retcon explanation from Heinberg that just makes yet another interesting female character look bad because all women go mad with power, right?

Regardless, even if I did accept section c up there, that still doesn't excuse the pretty fucking disgusting opinion some have which amounts to little more than 'WANDA DESERVES TO BE BEATEN'. Jesus Christ, we only just got beyond that fucking stigma of 'Hank Pym: WIFEBEATER' - we can do without the standard for Wanda being to get smacked in the face every single appearance.

From:

theflames

Not all woman go mad with power, Storm and Rachel Grey say hey, hello, wassup.

It's canon, and it's what happened, I've think Scott's been character assassinated, but it's where the story took him, it happened.

Mass murderer > wife beater: THIS FEELS VERY AWKWARD FOR ME TO EVEN MENTION.

Basically, she did what she did, and is in actual fact, VERY responsible for the consequences. Her crime isn't being treated with the gravity it deserves. And for all the trouble she's caused - she gets punched twice? (in recent memory) MEH, this isn't disgusting, or gross, it simply happened.Im not gonna tell them no you're a horrible person if they punch her. I wouldn't tell them to. But between either characters, I'm sure as hell not condemning Rouge, she's seeing the mass murderer who created the past couple of years problems, point blank - she lost her temper. 100% understandable.

It's happened, I don't think it should happen with every character interaction, but when it does, it makes sense. I just want the woman to go on bloody trial. C'mon Captain America, where's that justice?!

Even if you don't want to accept the 'retcon' which isn't really a retcon since it's the first time it's been properly explained and not implied, she's still mentally ill and received NO HELP after the fact. Cops who have implied mental instabilities, get screened and if proven right, taken off the field - WHY, has this not applied to her? She shouldn't be around for anything unless she 100% needs to be there. She should be in an institution, getting better and less dangerous.

And damn. Swearing directly at me or not - it's acidic to any internet conversation, please don't.

From:

mrstatham

Had enough of this discussion, but please don't tell me what I can and can't put into a statement. I'll swear if I want, and it wasn't directly at you.

From:

theflames

Don't give me that bull, swear with your friends when its mutually accepted, I'm all for it, but were people on the internet, be decent. But whatever.

From:

salinea

This thread is under discussion by the Mod team. I've frozen this last exchange but don't make me freeze the rest of it by escalating, please?

From:

theflames

People keep putting her on the front lines?

She is now unable to tell the world 'No thanks, I'll sit this one out' - nope, when she goes on the front line, that's down to her.

She induced a lot of her own problems down the line. Her children were subconscious, not her fault, loosing them, traumatising sure, definitely - an excuse for mass murder? NO.

Going to Doom and using magic you don't understand to try and fix that? You've just opened the pandora's box on purpose, and this is truly her own responsibility, many, many crimes are committed under grief, and this one took the cake.

That's the thing, superheroes NEED to be responsible with their abilities, the same way a professional boxer can face jail time if he hurts someone outside the ring (because he's trained in the art of doing serious damage - he should know better). Superheroes like her, need to be way more aware of their abilities and the concept of life and death.

She collaborated with Doom, a known villain into playing with magic neither understood, and everyone but her felt the consequences. Life and death consequences.

And yet she's back, and all the people she hurt have to just look at her and say 'yeah, sure, whatever'. Nope, not fair on them.

btw '...yes?' - you really think getting punched in the face... 2 times now, is worse than jail time, therapy, rehabilitation, and the sort? Hell Wanda isn't too bothered about getting those thing. So 2 punches to the face for mass murder is an easy week for Wanda Maximoff.

God forbid they be this lenient with the 'actual' bad guys.

From:

auggie18

"People keep putting her on the front lines?

She is now unable to tell the world 'No thanks, I'll sit this one out' - nope, when she goes on the front line, that's down to her. "

Okay, I'm going to quote you from a different comment here.

"Even if you don't want to accept the 'retcon' which isn't really a retcon since it's the first time it's been properly explained and not implied, she's still mentally ill and received NO HELP after the fact. Cops who have implied mental instabilities, get screened and if proven right, taken off the field - WHY, has this not applied to her? She shouldn't be around for anything unless she 100% needs to be there. She should be in an institution, getting better and less dangerous. "

If we're saying she's mentally unstable, the fact she's volunteering to do this stuff is irrelevant. Her teammates should be getting her some help instead of sending her back into situations that are only going to make things worse.

"btw '...yes?' - you really think getting punched in the face... 2 times now, is worse than jail time, therapy, rehabilitation, and the sort? Hell Wanda isn't too bothered about getting those thing. So 2 punches to the face for mass murder is an easy week for Wanda Maximoff."

It's not an easy week because it isn't getting her the help she needs. It is worse because it is ignoring her many, many problems and endorsing vengence instead of rehabilitation. It's worse because it's reaffirming a suicidal person's belief that everybody hates her and making it way more likely that she will snap and lash out again.

From:

theflames

I can appreciate the quote and were your coming from. But that's me saying 'if' she's still mentally unstable, when she came back she seemed to have fixed all her instabilities under her own power. Seriously.

Look at Children's Crusade, she returned, and for the most part, is very healthy, yes, there might still be some instability - but she clearly knows the difference between right, wrong, logic and illogical, hell she does feel remorse, she isn't criminally insane. She isn't *that* far gone at this point, and we shouldn't paint is as such.

She has the ability to say no, nothing shown since her return has suggested that she's being forced, or making these current decisions out on instability. I just don't want her on the field because she's had a strong dangerous past of instability, and should probably do a 'Liz Sherman' and go off to the Himalayas to train and hone her skills. Or get therapy, I'm cool with either.

________

I call it an easy week because for all her guilt and saying sorry, she hasn't done something that she has full power over; turning herself in. Not to the Avengers, but to the authorities, she isn't seeking rehabilitation, and seems to think that saying 'sorry' and then jumping back on the field is a way to repent.

At this point we can all agree that she's better off now, mentally, than she was before right? We can agree that she's able to make most, if not all decisions now with a fairly stable mind - since it's been presented that way since she came back. She's better now, and needs to turn herself in, out of respect for herself and the people she's hurt.

But she's taking the comic book path to Justice. Which is of course the writers fault. They want us to feel the gravity of these huge horrible accidents, crimes and disasters. And then give us these solutions.

To make myself clear. I don't think getting punched in the face is doing *her* any good. They, the writers, and in turn, the Avengers, don't want to get her any help in the justice/logical sense. So the victims are left in the dust. So, I *cannot* get mad at Rogue for punching her. Or Hope... and I really dislike Hope.

But if it turns into one long 'every X-man gets a shot at Wanda's jaw' - then I'll be up in arms, and saying 'REALLY?' because if that's what this will turn in to, then why not just put the woman on trial, find her guilty and go through the process of character reconstruction?

From:

bruinsfan

At this point we can all agree that she's better off now, mentally, than she was before right? We can agree that she's able to make most, if not all decisions now with a fairly stable mind - since it's been presented that way since she came back. She's better now, and needs to turn herself in, out of respect for herself and the people she's hurt.

In the last couple of issues of Children's Crusade Wanda seemed to be accepting responsibility for her actions and offering to do her best to make reparations/accept punishment. And I think she was voluntarily staying off the field until the big Phoenix-themed crisis blew up and necessitated her pitching in. I hope that Cap or even better Carol Danvers (who knows firsthand about the Avengers' lack of due dilligence with follow-up to mental trauma) will step in and try to get her some qualified help at some point.

From:

flint_marko

Do you have a link to the preview?

From:

auggie18

I actually found this here: http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?428344-Which-mutant-will-punch-Wanda-in-the-face-next

I'm assuming the actual page is on CBR, but I didn't check.

From:

darkknightjrk

Perfectly valid reason. XD

As for why Rogue does this--I know Remender's said that she's kind-of in a bad place post-AVX, and is more of the Wolverine of the group than Wolverine himself. Did something happen to her in Legacy? I bowed out after she got dropped in that alien dimension.

From:

salinea

It's awfully weird.

In Legacy she helped aliens mend bridges between themselves, got back to earth and joined the Avengers side of the war; broke up with Magneto because she wanted to be her own person... and that's it. She seemed pretty serene and emotionally grounded all in all.

From:

darkknightjrk

Huh. So, either something happened between AVX and Uncanny Avengers, or it's just one of those cases of how character progression can be kinda malleable when multiple writers are approaching a character.

It could also be said that maybe Wanda just says something that pisses Rogue off.

From:

salinea

Or ate her muffin, yes.

(Wanda ate Rogue's muffin sounds awfully dirty. Jean will be jealous.)

From:

shadowpsykie

(Wanda ate Rogue's muffin sounds awfully dirty. Jean will be jealous.)

or want in on it :D

From:

salinea

I get worried when Jean gets hungry...

From:

shadowpsykie

but with Rogue's powerset...

and think... Wanda, Jean, Rogue... can anyone say "Power of a million exploding suns" :D

From:

salinea

huhu :D

From:

shadowpsykie

he i thought you'd like that :D

From:

jlbarnett

perhaps she's just looking at event progression and not happy with Wanda. I mean all this traces back to House of M. So Charles is dead, Scott is imprisoned, the X-men are split(tell me all the kids who stayed on Utopia would be happy at the Jean Grey school) and Wolverine's kind of turned into a sanctimonious ass

From:

q99

But, muffin!

From:

biod

What bothers me the most is what an awkward position that is to punch someone; you'd sooner throw your back out than sufficiently transfer kinetic force.

From:

big_daddy_d

Wanda deserves to pay for her crimes. As much as I mention how the Phoenix 5 should be held accountable for their actions, I feel the exact same way about Wanda. If she hasn't by now, then something is wrong here.