Progress? The reaction to the Pied Piper coming out in the Flash in 1990

[blinkytreefrog]

I'm in the process of sorting through all my old comics, which means I've dug up some bits and pieces that I've been meaning to post for a while.

The Pied Piper, able supporting character/ex-villain/socialist/all round awesome dude, came out in Flash (vol 2) #53 (you can read it over here if you want, along with some interesting commentary). This was a year before Northstar, making him probably the most high profile gay character at the time in "the big two" of Marvel and DC.



And he had a sense of humour, too! :-)

Anyway, since people didn't have the web to air their opinions about it to everyone, they did it in the letters pages instead.



Initial reaction letters:





I appreciate how calm, logical, and sane the editors were. Win for them.

But, interestingly enough, the topic was so heated they ended up dedicating another letters page to it as well (this is the one I'd been meaning to scan in).







It's interesting to look back just 20 years and see how attitudes have changed. And how they haven't :-/.

Comments

[joeyconqueso]

When I read reaction to Piper coming out, I half expected to see the sequence when Wally runs away from him.

Anyways, it's always fun to take a look back at the madness of the letters page. I can only imagine what some of the rejected letters must have been like.

[icon_uk]

When I read reaction to Piper coming out, I half expected to see the sequence when Wally runs away from him.

That bit's in the link posted.

[lissa_quon]

Wow I love the editor's replies to some of these. So eloquent.

[magus_69]

One line sticks out at me: "Who's Rush Limbaugh?" In the words of Archie and Edith: Those were the days!

[blackruzsa]

Christians who aren't particularly good at acting Christians? Yup yup! Thank you!
And I'm not going to accept "there are different sorts of Christians and some of them can hate homosexuals" because Christians are people who follow Christ's teachings, which basically revolve around love and acceptance. Anything against that is the monster Christianity mutated into over a few centuries of corrupt Church manipulation.

Jesus Himself was pretty against religions becoming institutions used to hate, control and abuse people.

Sorry for the rant!

And I love how he's responding so smoothly, but not in a placating, noncommital way, but in an actual form of defense.

[morwen]

So, by your definition there are how many Christians? Possibly as many as twenty?

[blackruzsa]

More than you know, less than there should be, by my definition.

[halloweenjack]

If you're willing to accept that a Christian could be someone who not only doesn't belong to any particular religion but simply thinks that living as Christ lived and acting toward other people as he did is a good way to be without necessarily believing in God or Christ's divine nature at all, then lots.

[sistermagpie]

But that's a bit of a true Scotsman definition, isn't it? I understand what you're saying, that homophobia and bigotry goes against Christ's teachings in your view, but there are plenty of self-professed Christians who disagree.

[blackruzsa]

Every definition of an identity is a True Scotsman definition, but this is one of the more basic, less abusive ones, like comparing feminists and radical man-haters, who can also be feminists but whom I don't agree with.

And despite a frightening number of people who disagree, Christians aren't SUPPOSED TO BE evil, misguided idiots, and I hate people making that assumption or implying it, online or otherwise :|

[icon_uk]

As an ACTUAL True Scotsman, should I be offended by this? :)

[sadoeuphemist]

So did Piper ever get a boyfriend?

[icon_uk]

Yes he did, though I can't remember his name (since I'm not a regular Flash reader)

And he's also in the new 52 as well, where he's described as a "reformed vigilante" and who is dating Barry Allen's boss, Director David Singh.

[kamino_neko]

Unfortunately, it's not a great relationship for Hartley, since David seems to be so deep in the closet he regularly has tea with Aslan, at least as far as his public life goes, and he seems to have trouble with his past as a vigilante.

[icon_uk]

Hopefully that can be dealt with through a story arc.

[blinkytreefrog]

Piper's boyfriend before the new DCU was called James; he was nice enough, if a bit generic. He kind of disappeared without a trace around John's run.

[icon_uk]

And for those interested, Malcolm Bourne (who I also remember as a prolific letter writer back in the day) is still active in the fandom

[donnblake]

Second letter printed, first set- anybody know what the fancy explaining their way out of the situation Marvel (I assume) is being called out on is in reference to?

[kamino_neko]

Maybe the 'Northstar's a real fairy, not THAT kind' thing? Not sure if the timelines line up.

[maseiken]

Blinkytreefrog mentioned this was about a year before Northstar coming out. I believe that had a lengthy build up beforehand.

[blinkytreefrog]

maseiken is right; there was a lot of hinting about Northstar but it took Marvel ages to get the courage to be forthright about it. Byrne had been dropping hints when he started the book, and it really was getting rather silly that two writers later they still weren't willing to bite the bullet.

[shadowpsykie]

funny enough, i am working on a paper for class on this topic... it's not easy lol

[crabby_lioness]

I loved Wally's embarrassment at his foot-in-mouth disease. That seemed so real.