The Punisher tries to punch Spiderman

[leoboiko]

A single page from Punisher: War Zone (2012) that I found amusing.

So The Punisher has used web-shooters to get into a building and murder someone. Spider-Man isn't too happy about it. Marvel heroes being adult, mature, reasonable human beings, they hold a civilized discussion over coffee on ethics and social work. They try to beat the hell out of each other.

I'm digging the Big Boss Punisher design.

Comments

[rainspirit]

I'm digging the Big Boss Punisher design.

Me too, honestly. Another series I ought to be throwing my money at. :(

I love it when Spider-Man stands up to the classic big man like that.

[mrstatham]

It was pretty much the Big Boss look that got me into this series. That and Rucka. But now I'm just sad because I want Rucka writing a series about The Boss and her missions prior to Snake Eater. And I know that's never going to happen.

[damar148]

"So The Punisher has used web-shooters to get into a building and murder someone. Spider-Man isn't too happy about it. Marvel heroes being adult, mature, reasonable human beings, they hold a civilized discussion over coffe on ethics and social work. They try to beat the hell out of each other."

Well that really is a dickish thing to do by Frank, there's propably a dozen other ways he could get into a building, but he used the trademark equipment of someone who distinctly Does Not Kill, who propably will be considered a suspect by the typical Marvel authorities as an result, so Peter being angry sounds justified.

[leoboiko]

Definitely. But "being angry with you" does not equal "let's argue over punches" outside of the Marvelverse. (Not that I don't find it entertaining.)

I won't be surprised if the entire thing turns out to be a big gambit by Frank.

[daningram.livejournal.com]

"Definitely. But "being angry with you" does not equal "let's argue over punches" outside of the Marvelverse. (Not that I don't find it entertaining."

Well, it kinda does when you're a mass murderer resisting arrest.

[randyripoff]

It's nice to see that someone at Marvel remembers that there's no way someone should hurt Spider-Man hand to hand without super powers. Now, if they could only convince Garth Ennis of that...

[jcbaggee]

Motto. There was a great stretch for decades there where they would casually hint that Spidey was one of, if not THE strongest hero in the Marvel U, a resource untapped by his loner nature and lack of training (I believe someone once even theorized he would be in the top 5 smartest Marvel U residents, but his intelligence is never tested because, again, loner nature).

With writers that opted to focus on Peter instead of Spider-Man, they've taken the shortcut of giving him bad luck and making him somewhat of an easy beat, which is downright sad. I miss the Spider-Man who couldn't find his shoe, but then would accidentally defeat the X-Men.

[silverhammerman]

I've actually been thinking for a while that if Spider-Man was every actually allowed to really grow up as a character that he'd wind up being the Superman/Captain America type of hero who everyone else defers to.
Which is why I was so disappointed when Ultimate Peter Parker bit the big one, I was hoping that with his training at SHIELD and not being stuck with a status quo we would actually get to see him become the great superhero that Nick Fury thought he could be.

[randyripoff]

That is how he was treated in Spider-Girl, although part of that was that he'd lost a leg fighting the Green Goblin and rarely suited up anymore.

[silverhammerman]

Yeah, it always annoyed me though that Peter was sidelined like that. I'd be much more interested in actually seeing him out and about in that sort of role. Of course I never got to read Spider-Girl, so my objection is more on a conceptual level than a problem with the actual series.

[randyripoff]

You may want to check out Spider-Girl. The digests are reasonably inexpensive, and it's kind of a throwback comic--the heroes are heroes, the villains are villains, there's some angst but nto so much that it's overwhelming, lots of good stuff.

[joeyconqueso]

I had so much hope for that kid. Everything went to crap due to one really suck ass day.

[randyripoff]

I don't know about the strength (although he is pretty damned strong) but I'm pretty sure he's getting his due these days in the brain department.

[magus_69]

In ASM Annual #1, they stated that the only heroes stronger than Spider-Man were (in ascending order) the Thing, Thor, and the Hulk--and then they pointed out that Spidey was still a teenager.

[skemono]

Eh? I'm pretty sure Spider-Man's strength has been set at being able to lift 10 tons for ages. That's well into the super-human, but there are plenty of Marvel characters that outclass him.

[magus_69]

There are now, but the annual came out in 1963.

[jlroberson]

The Punisher didn't knock out Spidey in the story I think you're referring to; that was the artificially strong(and huge-breasted) Russian. What Frank did was use an unconscious Spidey as a shield to back the Russian to the edge of a roof where he then pushed him off with one finger.

"We had a team-up. You were great."

Love that story.

[randyripoff]

No, the Punisher didn't knock him out. It was the Russian. However, Spider-Man should have been able to take the Russian relatively easily. It was Ennis showing his complete and utter disdain for super heroes that stuck in my craw. Was it funny? Yes, but it would have been funny without the inclusion of any super beings.

I've enjoyed much of Ennis's work, including his Punisher work, but every time he brings super heroes into the stories, they don't work so well.

[jlroberson]

I have no problem with showing complete and utter disdain for superheroes, because (a) they deserve it and (b) they'll still be there no matter what shots you take at them because they are corporate trademarks utterly immune to said disdain.

I'm sorry, but when superheroes seem to be everywhere, to the point that over at DC they're crowding out what little space there once was for non-superhero stories: cry me a river. After a while, one has to throw them up. Not all of us are in love with them. Some of us like there to be other kinds of stories in comics too. So I enjoy when Ennis takes shots at them. Though this didn't get me to ever really like THE BOYS, because in my view, he started out seeming to go down a MARSHAL LAW path, but actually instead just created another product for a different part of the superhero market, the part that deludes itself it's reading something "mature."

[espanolbot]

He has sustain for... some superheroes. He can write a good Wonder Woman, Superman and Batman when the mood takes him (see JLA/Hitman). But ones he just flat out doesn't like, it can get silly. Like with Green Lantern, for example.

The thing with that particular run of Punisher though, is that it was really more of an incredibly violent Looney Toons thing. Hence things like Wolverine getting run over by a steamroller.

[silverhammerman]

Nice. I like that Rucka looks to be writing this not as "Punisher beats up the Avengers" which would be goddamn ludicrous, but from what I've heard, more like "Punisher tries to hide from the Avengers".
And I love when writers remember that Spidey is actually a pretty powerful superhuman. He might not be able to take the (modern) Hulk, but he's more than capable of taking out a regular human like the Punisher.

[salinea]

Yeah, it's the Avengers going after Punisher.

[leoboiko]

Well there’s only #1 yet, but so far it’s the Punisher trying to hide, yes. He has some inside help though—which I think is good characterization: this is an important part of Frank’s "powers": his sympathizers. We know this is a major reason he rarely has trouble with the law; most cops on the street are supportive of his methods and worldview. In other words, being a "badass" gives Frank political power. However, the story opens with him being framed for cop-killing again, which divides the public opinion. I’m expecting that, in trying to escape the Avengers, he’ll have to use his own reputation (which is currently damaged) as best as he can.

Also, I have to mention that Frank does defeat Spider-man in this fight—at least, well, he runs away successfully after stunning him with grenades. There’s still definitely a sense of power level difference, of human vs. superman, more than in the average Punisher story; and this does great for the portrayal of both Frank and the Avengers. When Spidey tries to convince the heroes to go after the Punisher, most don’t take him seriously—it’s just a regular human, who cares? (Tony: “This is bush-league stuff”). Only Cap supports the proposal, as one would expect.

[silverhammerman]

Yeah, I figured Frank would wind up escaping, but at least it was just an escape as opposed to him straight up beating Spidey by virtue of his manly determination or something.

[daningram.livejournal.com]

In all fairness, the Avengers don't care if Frank killed the cops or not. Cap outright states that isn't why they're going after him.

[leoboiko]

The Avengers don’t (except perhaps Natasha?), but Society does, and losing his street cred would make it harder for him to blend in and lie low. Basically a "must run from everyone" story—of course, every time this happens, Frank has a way of escaping by running towards and through the danger.

[thistleburr]

I've never been a fan of the Punisher at all, but I am intrigued by his Big Boss costume (even if he has the eyepatch on the wrong side!)

[wizardru]

30 years ago, I liked the Punisher.

Now I just have a hard time understanding how he's walking around free. I mean, he's an admitted and recognized mass murderer of varying numbers. Why the rest of the MU hasn't just grabbed him, I have no idea.

Spidey doesn't let an accidental shooting by a mugger go without hounding the guy for days until he catches him. How does a high-profile anti-hero like the Punisher go for...however many years sliding time makes him active....and not get hunted down?

[leoboiko]

Same suspension-of-disbelief problem I have with The Kingpin.

The only alternative is to assume a sliding time window. The characters aren’t allowed to age or die, so don’t look too far back into the past.