Amazing Spider-Man #698

[cyberghostface]

So I've always said that if something good happened in ASM, I'd admit it. Case in point: Amazing Spider-Man #698. I dropped the title with #545 and now I'm back to subscribing to it (for the duration of this storyline at least). This is something that will piss off a lot of people but I feel this could lead to some really good stories in the long run.

So the dying Dr. Octopus has awoken from his coma and is asking for none other than Peter Parker.

The bulk of the issue is a "day in the life" of Spider-Man as he swings around the city and interacts with his supporting cast. At the end, the Avengers tell him that Ock is nearing the end of his life and is asking for not Spider-Man, but Pete himself.












Wow. So 100 issues of Doc Ock in a gimp suit is suddenly worth it. I expected some sort of deus ex machina to bring Ock back but I didn't expect this.

Part of the payoff is if you read the issue again are the clues that Doctor Octopus is in Spider-Man's body. For example, when he gets a message from Aunt May, he thinks "That dear, sweet woman."

This will likely divide a lot of people but I really think this has a lot of potential. Who knows, maybe Ock will be better at being Spidey than Peter?

Comments

*SNORE*

[captainbellman]

So the "BIG TWIST" that Slott was guarding all this time is just a typical wacky sit-com plot point that any idiot could think up after 15 minutes of writer's block.

And, characteristic with Slott and his horribly hateful writing style, he has this "Spider-Man" instantly get with MJ so as to imply that Peter and MJ can only ever be a couple again when Peter is being used as a skinpuppet by a supervillain.

Mature, Dan. Really f*cking mature.

Re: *SNORE*

[cyberghostface]

And, characteristic with Slott and his horribly hateful writing style, he has this "Spider-Man" instantly get with MJ so as to imply that Peter and MJ can only ever be a couple again when Peter is being used as a skinpuppet by a supervillain.

I didn't get that impression at all. I mean there are definite areas where the BND writers like to egg the fan but I just think it's Doc Ock trying to get the most out of living as Spidey. I would be more annoyed if Ock!Spidey gravitated towards how perfect Carlie was.

And I like not so much the idea of "supervillain of switches bodiies with the hero" (which has been done) but the concept of Dr. Octopus as Spider-Man and how he adapts to the role in the long term.

[demonprawn]

Wasn't it brain damage from his accident that made Doc Ock evil? So now that he's in an undamaged brain he should act differently in some way right?

[cyberghostface]

Kind of but I think his added backstory showed that he definitely had issues even before the accident. I mean Zeb Well's miniseries showed that he fantasized about nuking the city to get back at those who bullied him.

[captainbellman]

So can we all agree to simply refer to the new Spider-Man book as "The Freaky Friday-Man" until it inevitably gets put back to normal?

[darkknightjrk]

...HOLY SHIT. O_O

That said, I can't imagine that this is going to be the status quo for Superior Spider-Man. What I think might be more likely is that Peter figures some way out (maybe with the help of Doctor Strange or something), and #700 ends with Peter and Ock basically sharing the same body, with their personalities meshing together.

[cyberghostface]

Maybe it'll be like in Heroes when Sylar kind of absorbed who Nathan was (different situation) given that he had all his memories.

[long_silence]

God I hope MJ doesn't end up sleeping with Ock thinking it's Peter, that always skeeves me out in body switching stories like this.

[cyberghostface]

Knowing Ock he'll probably try to get with May.

[stillanerd]

Dang it, ya beat me to it, cyberghostface. :o ;)

Anyways, with regards to this issue--Yes, I’m more than a little annoyed about this twist. Yes, this isn‘t the least bit original or new, even for Spider-Man (after all, Bendis did the "body swap" plot over in Ultimate Spider-Man years ago). Yes, it’s got “temporary status quo” written all over it. And yes, you could easily tell, much to your ever increasing sense of dread, what was about to happen. All that being, I’ve still got to give Dan Slott A LOT of credit for doing an absolutely masterful job in the way he set up this cliffhanger. Also, kudos to those who predicted that something like this would happen months ago, in some cases well before Superior Spider-Man had been officially announced by Marvel.

That being said, not only do I think Peter isn‘t dead, I’m still not entirely convinced that this will result in Doc Ock becoming the new Superior Spider-Man for the following reasons:

1. This is still the first part of three-part story (four parts if you include Amazing Spider-Man #699.1) with the main story in Amazing Spider-Man #700 being close to 60 pages long. Which still leaves plenty of twists and turns left before Superior Spider-Man #1 debuts.

2. Doc Ock’s own megalomania won’t allow him to maintain such a charade for too long. Especially once Doc Ock realizes Peter and Spider-Man will still be getting the recognition that he believes he is entitled to have.

3. Even if Doc Ock did manage to keep up this ruse, someone with psychic and/or magical powers (hello, Dr. Strange!) would instantly know that “Peter” is not really Peter and try to fix things.

4. The Superior Spider-Man has retractable claws, presumably for wall-crawling as well as for being offensive weapons. Since Doc Ock is shown to have all of Peter’s abilities intact, what legitimate reason would he have to create those retractable claws since he already has wall-crawling powers?

So I’m still thinking (and hoping) this all an elaborate misdirection until the real identity of the Superior Spider-Man gets revealed. And I wouldn’t be at all surprised if we’re going to see Spidey vs. Doc Ock fighting each other in the other person’s body a la Face/Off. I wouldn’t be surprised if Peter is forced to commit “suicide” by being forced to kill his own body in order to stop Doc Ock--perhaps even going as far as to break out his own villains from the Raft and exposing his own secret identity in order to do it.

In the meantime, I really hope we won’t see Doc Ock in Peter’s body get it on with Mary Jane like the Chameleon did with Michele Gonzales in Amazing Spider-Man #603, because that would be just…YUCK!

[cyberghostface]

One idea I have is if, assuming that Ock's physical body died, Peter's consciousness would still be inside that golden octobot that's running around.

[whoha]

How did you get this issue early?

"Also, DAMM YOU SLOTT! How could you kill of Peter Parker. There can't be a spiderman if it's not Peter parker, and you ruined my childhood and went back in time and burned my precious mcfarlane issues you evil, evil, man. There is no way Peter Parker can come back from this. I've read comics for 30 tears, so I know. How can marvel be so mean and evil and ruin him?"
-Half of the Internet/ superboy prime

[cyberghostface]

The issue was leaked ahead of time. I wanted to wait until the actual release date before I posted anything. (Hope that's alright.)

FWIW after I read the issue I preordered it at my local comic book shop.

[silverzeo]

Wait... WHY would he be in the body of SPider-Man, a man who gotten TONS of beat downs to the dozens his has given? I mean, Kraven. King Pin. So on and so forth... Oh, and what the fraq happen to Alpha?

[cyberghostface]

Well Spider-Man's superhuman, physically speaking Doc Ock is not. So he can take more punishment. If that's what you were asking.

[walkingthroughforest]

Holy shit.
My heart actually sank reading that. Masterful by Slott. I'm one of his harshest critics, but bravo.

I'm not disappointed by the use of a trope done once before (10 years ago), especially when it's done this well.

[halloweenjack]

Maybe just once in his own book, but the Freaky Friday Flip [TVTropes] has been used many, many, many times.

[nate_abril96]

My theory is that Peter is still Peter, but that Ock actually tricked Peter into thinking that he's actually Ock instead of himself (using some kind of mind control technique). So Peter is still Peter but he thinks that he is Ock instead, and Ock gets his final revenge by beating Spider-Man and assuring that his legacy lives on in some way.

[seisachtheia]

That sounds much like a FRINGE plot. (Which is another way of saying: cool, I like it!)

[whoha]

best summed up in three words: schrodinger's Peter Parker.

[the_phantom]

Now that was a mind-fuck

I REALLY hope this isn't the post-700 status quo, for one simple reason...

[bewareofgeek]

Because if it is, the villain WON.

Even if Peter's memories overwrite Otto's, or he manages to transfer his mind back from the octobot, or whatever plot twist Slott or his successor decides to use eventually to revert things, it seems flat-out wrong to celebrate 700 issues of a character with an act of identity theft.

I think folks called it, though. This is only the first twist. The only reason we're considering it as long term is that Slott himself hyped it to over-importance with his insistence it not be spoiled.

Which makes me wonder... when a story hinges on a surprise like this, how does it affect re-readability? For me, a story works best from that perspective if it is interesting EVEN IF you know the ending.

What's your opinion?

Re: I REALLY hope this isn't the post-700 status quo, for one simple reason...

[mrstatham]

"Which makes me wonder... when a story hinges on a surprise like this, how does it affect re-readability?"

I think there will need to be sufficient time between this issue coming out and us being able to judge this in terms of rereading. I personally think the kind-of 'oh crap' nature of the reveal will still be fairly heavy sans surprise, like the 'I did it thirty minutes ago' reveal of Watchmen. Granted, I'm not comparing this to Watchmen in the slightest, but that seems to play with the same kind of surprise, really; I can't imagine what Watchmen #11 readers must have felt back in the day, but that reveal still has real impact.

[omgwtflolbbqbye]

It was a nice plot twist but I would have preferred the new shift to be the rumor about Ock fusing his arms onto Peter as a big f-u before he died, so Peter would really have no personal life and be forced to become a freakish Spider-Man 24/7. Body swap stories, I can still enjoy, but in small doses.

It sort of reminds me of that F4 arc when Reed was trapped in Doom's body. That actually lasted for a relatively long stretch no?

[donnblake]

When Reed was trapped in Doom's body, or in his armor?

[icon_uk]

The reveal reminds me of Lex Luthor Jr after the death of Superman, apparently having a private moment of mourning over his friend, only, of course, to be gloating exultantly.

[silverhammerman]

Yeah, not loving it. Ditto the remarks about this being a very temporary status quo and only the first of multiple twists. It's not quite what I want going forward, but if this were say, an independant book about original characters I'd be totally onboard with this as a status quo, but for Spider-Man, no way.
I'm sure this'll be wrapped up in 700, because I would not be down for reading a Spidey book like this.
I'm kind of curious as to when the switch is supposed to have occured and how. Also, in spite of myself I'm now really really looking forward to seeing Peter strike back however he does.

I know what this reminds me of..

[steverodgers5]

There was an episode of Angel ('Carpe Noctem') where an old dying guy swapped his spirit/soul with Angel with a similar cheating death like idea. The main difference being that Angel got swapped back just in time for the old guy's heart to give out.

Think this is why this is rubbing me the wrong way, in that having the bad guy succeed in his plan is actually really chilling..

Re: I know what this reminds me of..

[captainbellman]

There was a near-identical scenario in the recent "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: 1969" by Moore and O'Neill, involving Oliver Haddo - a version of Aliester Crowley - and one of his young acolytes. It was a far more chilling scene than the above scans because it was done subtly and quickly, and because the acolyte wasn't really an enemy - just an innocent pawn, duped by his 'master' into an unfair death.

Of course, the main difference is that, unlike in the above scans, the transaction ACTUALLY FIT THE GODDAMNED CHARACTER.

[sir_mikael]

I think this is an interesting direction to take for a while (the retractable claws on Superior Spidey seem to point at more going on than just it being Ock in Pete's body in the new run). The scene above is very well done and heart wrenching IMO.

Didn't Cassandra Nova do something similar? Switched bodies with Xavier and left him in her deceased (or killed?) one? And then Jean fixed it somehow cus Phoenix.

Wouldn't it be funny if Pete in Ock's body actually died (and there's a preview of 700 that suggests a heaven or heaven-like vision thing going on) and then Lady Ock came in with The Hand again and raised him from the dead? Oops, Carolyn.

[blackruzsa]

Don't like it, although the scene was well-done all the same.

So how did it happen, anyway? Care to share how OctoPeter came to be?

[stillanerd]

Well, here's my theory: As we saw in Amazing Spider-Man #600, Spidey was able to control Doc Ock's octobots and save the day. However, I think this also imprinted Spidey's brainwave signature onto the Octobots. However, thanks to Reed Richards', Doc Ock couldn't crack the code. That is, until Spidey got control of the octobots yet again, which remember are mentally linked into Doc Ock's own brainwaves just like his mechanical arms.

And THAT was the moment Peter unknowingly allowed Doc Ock full access into his own mind. Granted, that wasn't when the "body swap" happened, but I do think that was the moment Doc Ock not only learned Spidey was Peter, but also learned all his memories, fears, desires, fantasies, etc. Remember when Peter realized during Ends of the Earth that all the technology Doc Ock was using to carry out his "destroy the world" plan were all based on Peter's Horizon Labs inventions. Well maybe Doc Ock got them directly from Peter's own memories! Notice also that, if was after Spider-Island in which we saw octobots being capable of controlling people, which was obviously the prototype for Doc Ock's eventual transferring his own brain patterns into someone else.

Thus, Doc Ock created the gold octobot as insurance in case his plan for Ends of the Earth went belly-up, in that he copied his own brain patterns into it, and programmed the gold octobot so that, if anything should happen to him, it would seek out Spider-Man (which it would recognize based on his brain patterns) and then download the Doc Ock brain patterns into Spider-Man while uploading Spidey's brain patterns into the Octobot. Once that was done, it would then seek out the real Doc Ock and then transplant Peter's brain patterns into the real Doc Ock's body. And this took place sometime between ASM #697 and ASM #698. At least, that's what I think may have happened.

[ablackraptor]

You can argue whether or not this is well written or not, but damn, I haven't been this interested in what happens next in a while. Seriously, this is the biggest 'Oh Shit' moment in comics for a while.

[captainbellman]

Might I say that, from day 1, (Spider-Man #600), Slott's writing seems to heavily suggest the point-of-view of a writer who seems to harbour a worryingly passionate hatred of Doctor Octopus. These pages above, especially, seem to make him out as some kind of fiendish megalomaniac, stooping to levels that Doctor Doom would not sink to, the equal of - say - the Red Skull.

(In fact, this whole 'body-swapping' finagle is the Red Skull's modus operandi, isn't it? Yet again - THIS ISN'T A NEW, ORIGINAL OR AT-ALL SURPRISING IDEA.)

And speaking as someone who's always loved Doc Ock as a character? I can say that I'm STILL waiting for him to put in an appearance. Where's the man who fell for Aunt May? The man who barely ever killed innocents, if it could be avoided? The man who gave his beloved Angelina a second chance at life as Stunner? Or the same to Charlotte Witter as the fourth Spider-Woman? The man who wore fantastic suits and had amazingly wacky schemes to make profit from weird technology?

Why were we given smarmy super-gimp, and why are we now getting "The Freaky Friday-Man"? What market is this exactly geared for? Bad enough that Slott's already ruined Spider-Man, now he has to ruin Spider-Man's greatest nemesis?

[chrisdv]

As much as I hate this story, I only just realised Richard Elson did the art for this issue.

I grew up reading his work in Sonic the Cokic & he's long been a favourite artist of mine. Glad to see him doing the artwork for my favourite superhero's series, even if it is the 'Dying Wish' arc.