Catwoman #14

[superfangirl1]

Comments

[protogarrett]

"Be-yotch."

[lissa_quon]

....Yea...they either needed a way to rephrase that or just suck it up and type "bitch"

[darkknightjrk]

I think that the latter would probably make the most sense. It is still a T+ book, as I recall, and while it might rile some Bat/Cat lovers, considering where she is right now, I can see her thinking that settling down with Batman would be something like an admission of defeat, submitting to him and relinquishing all of who she is, for good and bad.

[auggie18]

It kinda reminded my of when Freddy Dukes would say "shee-oit" in some of the X-men books from the 80s, except this probably isn't an attempt to get something past the censors.

Seriously, they need to just use the freaking word. If every single bad guy in Arkham City can say it ad naseum, Catwoman should be able to think it.

[majingojira]

And we've found a use/misuse of 3 your old slang worse than "I've always been a hater."

I know it was possible, nay, probable that it would occur. But it's still revolting.

[thediiem]

As long as we are misusing kink language, I suspect the Joker is one who would top from the bottom, no matter what Batman thought was going on.

[sir_mikael]

That's actually canon. If we count Kevin Smith comics.

[icon_uk]

Do we have to?

[shadowpsykie]

oh god... i am afraid to ask... where was this.

also IANTOOOOOOO!

[darkknightjrk]

Batman: Cacophony. In the first issue, when Onomatopoeia saves Joker from being assassinated by Deadshot, he mentions that when he's being tied down to a tree by Ono to take down Deadshot.

[sir_mikael]

My mistake, Joker actually says he bottoms from the top not the other way around.
http://batman-lulz.livejournal.com/540660.html http://harlequinnade.tumblr.com/post/28013789586/oh-i-get-it-now-youve-got-one-of-those-clown
I know it was posted on SD before but it must have been SD 1.0 cus I find no traces of it.
Like darkknightjkr says, it's from Batman: Cacophony.

[darkknightjrk]

It's a little haphazard and weird, but I'll give Nocenti this--she's single-handedly bringing back the giant props in Gotham City, which I love immensely.

Seriously, though, it's a little muddy in weird dialogue, but I do think with these past two issues that Nocenti's done an interesting take on Selina, and I like that, as the tag for the next issue implies, we're going to start seeing some more crazy, high-stakes heists, which was what I was looking forward to with the title most.

Also, Rafa's art here has been INSANE.

[mrstatham]

Not a big fan of someone actively being able to stand next to the Joker and have what seems like a sensible discussion with him, frankly - that's my take on the weird dialogue - but the art is the best this book's had. Leagues above the cheesecake from March, who is much better off on Talon, IMO.

[marghammerman]

Yeah, the "trying to have a sensible discussion with the Joker" thing is what gets me, too. You would have to be either an idiot or equally insane to be trying to justify yourself to that guy, right? It makes Selina seem a bit silly.

[icon_uk]

Depends how mad you accept the Joker as being. The Joker can be very rational, otherwise he could never plan his crimes.

[mrstatham]

True, but this does just feel really rather bizarre in the larger context of Death of the Family. As I've said elsewhere, his intent is to basically strip the fat from Batman, take away what he thinks isn't necessary - regardless of what Selina's saying, he should still, in my eyes, by trying to kill her because of what she means to Batman. I'm not saying the Joker could never be rational, but what just looks like a discussion like this should not be taking place in the context of the event, given the Joker's stated intent in Batman.

[darkknightjrk]

I don't think killing her would have done that, though. If he killed Selina, Batman would have lingering doubts about what could have been--but if Joker manipulated things to convince her to move on from Batman completely...that would be ripping his heart out, in Joker's eyes.

[sun_man]

not regretting dropping this title

[captainbellman]

"I know what would be fun! Let us blatantly point out our own and each others' character motivations while we make awkward poses for no reason!"

"Hey, kids! Remember when your action figure games resembled the comics you read, instead of the other way around?"

[cyberghostface]

It's interesting to see how different artists draw Joker's new face. Doesn't really look he's wearing it as a mask here, the stretch marks aside.

[icon_uk]

"Well that felt like a naturally occurring meeting which added depth and intrigue to the storyline of both characters"... said nobody...

[kingofmadcows]

I still think that the Joker is using imposters. I think this might even be the beginning of the Jokerz gang.

[runespoor]

I'm usually not at all opposed to the school of dialogues that has characters pontificate about each other's motivations by aiming for the weak spots (I'm kind of a fan, actually), but the first pic made me grimace. Aside from that, I think it's fun.

[donnblake]

Am I imagining things, or is Joker carrying around a miniature Hansen Writing Ball?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hansen_Writing_Ball

[jaybee3]

She still doesn't know who Batman "is" in the reboot, right? Because her thoughts and concern would make a lot more sense if this was pre-reboot Selina who was just as involved with Bruce Wayne as she was with his other side and was aware of both. I still taking away her knowledge of Batman's identity is in the top 10 things that are wrong in the DC reboot.

[leoboiko]

[onceaskrull]

I generally like the art, but those poses. Yikes.

[leoboiko]

I don't mind the poses remotely as much as the awful, sloppy writing.

[filthysize]

Wait, that... was it? Why even bother joining in on the crossover?

[espanolbot]

To undermine the rest of it by making the Joker seem really petty and ineffectual?

[mrstatham]

It really is a story that should have just been contained to Batman, frankly. At least, that's the way I'm increasingly viewing it. You could still have the Joker stripping away the dead weight from Batman in that book and that book alone, because frankly, I'm not sure anyone else gets what the Joker's supposed to be going for here other than Snyder.

Based on Batman's main story, the Joker should have basically just tried caving Selina's skull in with a hammer or whatever here, because she's just another weight Batman needs to shed. What Selina thinks shouldn't matter - she can deny how she feels about Batman, but the point of the main story seems to be what these people are to Batman. Therefore, he should be giving her the same treatment as Gordon or Alfred, frankly.

[onceaskrull]

Am I looking at this the wrong way? It seems like in half the panels, Catwoman's goggles are in permanent just-shattered-with-pieces-flying-away mode. I honestly cannot figure out whether I'm looking at it wrong, or her goggles have some special lava lamp effect.

[mrstatham]

I think you're looking at it the wrong way. The lenses of her goggles have a reddy-orange gradient going on along with some highlights from the area's light, and there's also the details of her eyes and the like under the lenses.

[onceaskrull]

It's not the gradient I'm focusing on. It's the left goggle lens that looks like there are pieces flying off it on the first page (panels 2,4), third page (p. 3), fourth page (p. 1 and maybe 2). It's the extra ink (and, occasionally, orange color) that exists outside the surface of the lens that I keep focusing on, and I can't tell if it's just an inking/coloring error, if I'm misreading what's going on in the scene (though it seems to persist across panels), or what.

Totally not a big deal, but it was the first thing my eye was drawn to.

[mrstatham]

Oh, shit, I see what you mean.

That is weird. It looks like the drifting/blurring light effects from something like Akira, but just a little bit weird. I'm sure it's an intentional thing because it's far too consistent, but it does look odd.

[servant_iskandar]

Possibly, just a peculiar way to express the way light bounces off them, besides the gradient factor.

But I grew up on comics (and manga) with lots of Kirby dots and speedlines, so it's hardly surprising to me. The writing, on the other hand - it comes a far cry from the Ann Nocenti I used to remember.

Regarding Mr. J's face, I think Capullo's the only one so far who has managed to draw the skin-mask-thingamajig as something actually creepy. Maybe it's really down to a crowd of impostors and helpers doing errands for the boss, just as he focuses on the Bat.

[raspberryrain]

Looking back at it, I think it's supposed to represent motion. It threw me too.

[servant_iskandar]

I guess as much. Most often, artists achieve this with fluids - raindrops falling off a coat, tears trailing behind as a character turns her head or runs.

The panel with Selina turning her head, just before the arrow strikes, would be a textbook case of the latter.
But since she isn't crying, it's done with light, hue and reflections; besides, the goggles -are- the most colorful part of the ensemble here, so it's natural to focus on those.

What puzzles me is the odd combination of static poses and "particle effects" - this one, dust being kicked off, dirt drifting off. IMHO, it would look more natural if the overall composition felt more cinematic.

[mrosa]

It's really a problem of artists seldom using motion lines nowadays. What a confusing first page.

[servant_iskandar]

The fun fact is, there are motion / speed lines in this - look at the arrow flying towards Selina, just before it hits. And there are other instances through those panels.

But it's all somewhat discontinuous, and the poses / composition are static rather than statuesque and ready to spring into action - IMHO again, they don't flow well for the most part.

And the writing, sadly, seems to be an exercise in futility.

[glprime]

...The hell he'd get a truck up on a construction high-rise? Without her noticing?

He's the Joker!

No he's not. The Joker wears suits. This is some jerk repairman doing a Leatherface impersonation.

[shadowpsykie]

hmm i wonder if this will start selina on the path of actually thinking about her feelings for batman.

the whole "I don't LOVE him, he's my buzzkill" seems a bit :"the lady doth protest too much:" to me....

[maseiken]

"You could MARRY him!"
"(Ha, the thought's crossed my mind.)"

haha yeah, Imagine tha- wait. ....... Why? Why on earth would you sit around imagining being married to batman? What a singularly bizarre thing to think.