Superman #15

[superfangirl1]

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

hmm superboy actually looks like a boy, and a cutie at that :D i like...

[darkknightjrk]

Rocafort's just good at bringing out the sexy, no matter what gender. He's also really good at the strange and the grotesque...seriously, between this and finding some of his older stuff, I'm just kinda in love with Rocafort right now. :D

[mrstatham]

People can rag on Lobdell all they like, but this is the most readable the Superman book has been since Busiek was on it immediately after Infinite Crisis.

[mrstatham]

Also, pot kettle black there, Clark, when your secret superhero group just turfed out their own supervisor and fought a bad guy who specifically targeted them with their secrets.

[darkknightjrk]

I guess it's due to not knowing the kids involved. I think if he was informed that one of Batman's kids was involved and actually met the kids, he probably would end up cool with them.

[darkknightjrk]

Yes--before the last issue of Action, I would have said that this was better than Morrison's Action Comics. MORRISON. That's, like, insane.

[mrstatham]

I don't personally think Morrison had that much more to say about Superman after All-Star, personally. Morrison's love for the history of the character also doesn't exactly tie too well with the nature of a reboot with various aspects being switched up and changed, which is why I personally don't think Morrison and AC have clicked up until just recently. That said, I could say the same of Batman Inc, both volumes of which have, to me, entirely lacked the energy Batman and Robin offered.

[darkknightjrk]

I'd say he still had some interesting ideas at the start with the jeans and t-shirt Supes, and he had this big story with the forth dimension, but it took until #15 to really see what he was going for.

I thought the first volume was pretty fun, but yeah, I think with the second volume of Incorporated something's missing. It feels like Morrison's been driving in neutral about the whole Leviathan plot for a while now. I'm just hoping that there's more going on there, because if Action didn't end as good, that's one thing, but for his FIVE YEAR long story to end in a whimper? That would be depressing as fuck.

[bewareofgeek]

You can hardly blame him, though. He spent YEARS building up his Batbook run to a grand finale, embracing all of Batman's history, only to have the whole storyline undercut by a reboot that not only forced him to undo some pretty big changes (namely, Dick Grayson as Batman) but also erased nearly all of that history.

If I was in his shoes, I'dve lost enthusiasm too. DC should have let him write the book in the pre-Flashpoint universe. Call it a last hurrah.

[darkknightjrk]

That's the thing--outside of a few different costumes, it really can be read as Pre-Flashpoint. You can say that the New 52 caused it to be not as big of a story, but you can't blame it on the quality of the book on it's own--that's all on Morrison spending a good three issues telling basically nothing but stuff we already know.

[bewareofgeek]

It's a bit more than that, though. By taking Dick out of the Batsuit, the entire dynamic between him and Damian was changed.

[darkknightjrk]

I don't really see anything different from when Morrison had the three interact Pre-Flashpoint.

[bewareofgeek]

Before: Damian & Dick protect Gotham while Bruce goes around the world setting up his vast network of heroes. There was a definite statement that Dick's influence was good for Damian, that he could be the Batman Damian needed. In fact, Bruce flat-out said he COULDN'T be Batman to Damian's Robin

After: Bruce is Batman to Damian's Robin, and Dick & Damian barely interact.

Now, it's possible Morrison was planning on doing this anyway. But somehow, I doubt it.

[mrstatham]

Except that Damian and Bruce having to work together would have been a thing anyway; Talia is gunning for Damian because he refused to come back to her, and is making war on Bruce as an ideological opponent to Batman Inc. Therefore, Bruce is keeping Damian where it's safest. Morrison talked about the overall story for Inc before Flashpoint, and described it as being 24 issues where the first twelve were designed to build up Inc whilst the second half was meant to be more of a rollercoaster ride.

So very little sounds like it's changed in Morrison's overall story. He was always going to be doing this.

[darkknightjrk]

I think it was his plan--he said from the get-go, even before the New 52 was announced, that the next half of his Incorporated story would involve a lot of Bruce and Damian, and it isn't like this story is Bruce and Damian working together as a crime fighting unit, like in B&R, it's almost more about Bruce trying to protect/stop Damian.

[icon_uk]

AFAIK Dick as Batman is still canon, Nightwing #1has Dick note that he has returned to the role of Nightwing after filling in for Bruce.

[icon_uk]

Superman, if you want the kid to fly, say "Keep off the ground or you'll be zapped", "Watch your step" is at best vague and at worse meaningless.

[darkknightjrk]

I guess you can say that he figured that he can break Kon out of any of the prison defenses with little to no harm to his person.

[icon_uk]

Except now it means some poor sap has to reset the traps, and the prison is less secure until they do, and it makes Superboy feel like an idiot when it's not really his fault.

[protogarrett]

I love how Skitter has been just completely abandoned by both the writers and the Titans after building her up before the reboot. =P

[darkknightjrk]

I don't think that was the case--Lobdell's had characters mention her a few times since her disappearance. If he was going to drop it, there would be more finality to it.

For example, early on in Red Hood and the Outlaws, the Crux character that fought Starfire was originally going to be a member of the group, but apparently Lobdell decided against it. So the issue after Crux is defeated and they're carrying him as they're being chased by the bad guys they were after in the beginning, they just dumped Crux's ass in Arkham and never mentioned him again.

[cypherfdp]

Cyborg: As Designed by Robert Liefeld

[darkknightjrk]

Not at all--Liefeld can't really do complicated machinery/costuming like that. Compare Deathstroke's costume by Joe Bennet before Liefeld came on and how Liefeld drew it and you'll see what I mean.

[mrstatham]

Nope. Not nearly 90's enough. Sure, it's not the best visual for Cyborg, but it's not Liefeld-bad, be fair.

[darkknightjrk]

Here's how I look at it: this is apparently the first time that Superman himself has ever called the Justice League for help on something he couldn't handle. That's a Pretty Big Deal. Vic, who's been able to customize and prepare his chassis for any given situation, has given himself as much Dakka as he can handle, because he knows that if Superman needs help, Vic's going to need more dakka than he can probably handle.

[silverhammerman]

I really don't like the way Cyborg looks right now, he's too bulky. That worked fine when he was associated with the Titans and he worked as sort of a heavy hitter, but when you're on a team with Superman and Green Lantern, having a variety of guns doesn't quite cut it. I think they should have streamlined him and emphasized his tech-y elements a bit more, maybe made him a bit more like Mister Miracle. Admittedly they seem to have him doing more intelligence and support stuff right now, but it's completely incongruous with his tank-like appearance.

[darkknightjrk]

Ivan Reis has streamlined him pretty well in his first issue of Justice League:

[thefiretonight]

I'm really happy with the approach they took with Kal and Kon meeting for the first time. It was actually fun to read these two together.

[autohobbs]

Everything is armor...

[kenn_el]

Well, that settles it. When Wally returns he can be Man Flash! (Surprised you didn't post the Lex/Kon interaction. Interesting stuff in there.)

[akodo_rokku]

Hell no. Wally can be "Flash". Barry is now and forever "Man Flash".

[daphnie_1]

Okay, the art on this is *gorgeous*.

I don't really follow the new52 but is Wally still Flash or? I always liked Wally.

[silverhammerman]

Sadly, Wally's in limbo right now, he doesn't appear to exist in the New 52.

[daphnie_1]

Aww man that sucks. I don't really follow DC but I always liked Wally. Sad to hear that.

[onceaskrull]

This comment is a knife in my heart.

[daphnie_1]

I'm sorry D:

[akodo_rokku]

Wally's dad is currently appearing in Flash, looking for Iris (who's lost in the speed force or whatever) so... slim hope?

[nate_abril96]

I'm not reading New 52 Flash (so I probably have no right to comment), but I really hope that Daniel West is actually Wally's twin (or little) brother. That's the only thing that I can hope for, as Wally is the Flash that I grew up with. I miss Wally.

[jlbarnett]

Is Superman holding Lex prisoner, or someone else

[icon_uk]

Since the US military is running the place, it's not going to be Superman, he has no authority to do that in the DCnU.

Superman simply came up with the best way to trap Luthor, challenge his vanity.

Reminds me of Batman doing the same thing with the Key a few years ago, he challenged him to design a cell he couldn't escape from too.

[ardat_lili]

Automated
Meta
Adapting
Zeta
Operating
defense, huh? Well, there's no way THAT acronym is going to go wrong later...

[nate_abril96]

Except we already saw AMAZO in an issue of Justice League. You know the one issue where Green Arrow tries to join the team, and he shot Amazo in the butt. Still, cool theory.

[apexpredator]

Last I saw Lex, he was chugging Energy drinks, torturing Superman and getting fooled by a burned goat. WHAT I MISS HURR?

[darkknightjrk]

A lot can change in five years. Outside of this issue, the only other time he's appeared is in Action Comics Annual, a sort-of sequel to the first arc of Action, where we find that while Luthor was quickly shitcanned after what happened with The Collector/Brainiac, he was able to steal some Kryptonite that they had found and had them use it to create the new Kryptonite Man.