Justice league #19 Preview: Jason And Alfred Talk About Himself Being Part Of The Bat-family

[superfangirl1]

From a preview of Justice league #19

Comments

[icon_uk]

About bloody time we had an Alfred/Jason scene. I have a feeling that this is the first since his return from the dead, or have there been others.

(Oh, and could you please add that this is a preview, and of what issue, ABOVE the cut, and use the "genre: previews" tag)

[superfangirl1]

I can't seem to do it on my phone but will make the correction later. Promise. :)

[janegray]

Hear hear.

[blunderbuss]

Exactly. We know Jason's beef with the batfamily, but what about Alfred? Does Jason still kinda resent him because he will always side with Batman* or is he still on good terms with Alfred because he's the only parental-figure that hasn't 'betrayed' him?

Ever since the 'The Delusions of Alfred Pennyworth' story I always wondered if Jason got along really well with Alfred and they still have that sort of relationship now. Actually, the more that I think about it, Jason could go a LONG way to recovery if he actually re-established that surrogate father/son bond. (I've read quite a few sweet fanfics where Jason still hates/resents the batfamily but still sends Alfred presents on his birthday.)

* I'm not saying that Alfred does this - if anything I agree with the idea that if ANYONE can truly change Batman's mind, it's Alfred - but Jason might view it that way. Hurt kids and their biases, y'know.

[icon_uk]

I always wanted to see Alfred confront the at least mildly lethal Jason from the old DCU, and have him express relief at him being alive but disappointment at what he had chosen to become after getting a second chance at life. (I can't imagine Alfred forgiving him very easily for beating the shit out Tim in a fit of pique)

[blunderbuss]

Yeah, I can see Alfred being that perfect balance of being so happy that he's alive but also unafraid to chastise him for how he's lashed out at people. Because while I am becoming a huge Jason fan I still realize that Jason IS someone who needs a good firm kick in the ass when he goes too far, and Alfred is the perfect person to do it. (Hell, he's perfected the art after dealing with Bruce for so long.)

I can just see him going up to Jason and giving him a very gentlemanly hug, ask him to take the helmet off to see what a very handsome man he's grown into, and then slap him in the face and say what an utter shame it is for such a man to act like a bratty child.

(Now I feel the urge to write. DAMN YOU PLOTBUNNIES.)

[auggie18]

Wait, I thought in the DCnU, being Robin was like being an intern. (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/joshw24/news/?a=43956)

And under the new timeline, wasn't Jason Robin for, like, fifteen seconds before he was killed? This would work so much better in the old universe. They couldn't have known each other for more than a year before he died, which is pretty soon for father-son closeness.

Sigh. Whatever. Poor Jason, can't even have a heartfelt moment without getting injured.

[icon_uk]

They couldn't have known each other for more than a year before he died, which is pretty soon for father-son closeness.

I don't think it's safe to make any assumptions about how long it can take for closeness in an adoptive family situation, especially given that we're talking about Bruce Wayne here who has a track record of being a fairly awesome father figure.

[perletwo]

Popping in to add that they partnered together in a very high-stress, trust-intensive, dangerous profession & that can compress bonding time.

[skemono]

And under the new timeline, wasn't Jason Robin for, like, fifteen seconds before he was killed? This would work so much better in the old universe. They couldn't have known each other for more than a year before he died, which is pretty soon for father-son closeness.

Well, there were only three years real-time between Crisis on Infinite Earths and Death in the Family. Given how slow time progresses in comics, how long did they actually know each other, in-universe, old-universe? A month?

[icon_uk]

Jason predated Crisis by a couple of years, though that's further confused by him having two different iterations during his tenure.

[skemono]

Yeah, I know, but we are apparently counting different continuities separately.

[ablackraptor]

"Wait, I thought in the DCnU, being Robin was like being an intern."

Perhaps so, but I interpreted this as Alfred saying that, despite being 'just an intern', him and Bruce still loved him as a son. Sorta like a, very oddly spun, version of Doctor Cox and JD's relationship; JD was just Cox's intern, but he looked up to Cox as if he as his father, and Cox, despite never showing it, saw JD as like a son.
Actually, considering Cox is an emotional recluse who hates to build bonds with people and kept JD at arms length, and JD's an idealistic 'kid', that comparison fits better than I thought it would.

[icon_uk]

I'd pay good money to hear Bruce's version of one of Dr Cox's "Things I could care less about" speeches (Except he might substitute Christian Bale for Hugh Jackman)

[ablackraptor]

That would be an awesome moment in deed, but it would be hard to find someone he'd say it to without crossing into Bat-jerk mode.

[starwolf_oakley]

“I don’t want him to bury the pain and shut himself off from everyone.”

Alfred… you have MET Bruce, right?

[icon_uk]

He said "don't want him to" not "don't expect him to".

[elf]

"When we thought the Joker killed you?"

Jason didn't actually die? (Is this known, or are they just springing this detail on us now? I haven't been keeping up.)

Where's Jonni DC, Continuity Cop, when we need her?

When are we going to discover that Bruce's parents weren't killed, but were whisked away by government agents, turned to evil, and are soon to be coming to destroy the Batman?

[dr_archeville]

Bruce's parents were whisked off to a completely different universe, where they changed their name (to Parker) and had another son?

[elf]

Ah, of course. We can now expect the "Bruce's Brother From Another Universe" plot arc. Possibly, "Bruce's Evil Brother" etc.

[auggie18]

Been there, done that.

[thanekos]

" Your brother.. from the same mother. "

[espanolbot]

That was left pretty vague as to whether he actually was Bruce's younger brother though, as although he certainly thought and was told he was Tommy Jr., Bruce says there is enough evidence to suggest that he was another kid abandoned at the hospital shortly after his brother died that his parents may have treated as a surrogate replacement for the one they lost.

[darkknightjrk]

True, but...come on. I think I would actually be more annoyed if it WAS a red herring then anything. Snyder had the testicular fortitude to have his first BIG Batman story end with the reveal of Batman's younger brother as a super-villain, and he should stick to it, IMO.

[icon_uk]

Jason died as far as we know, Alfred is probably having a little difficulty find appropriate phrasing for his emotions about a child he viewed as his son dying, especially when said child is standing in front of him.

[elf]

That makes sense, and is entirely reasonable.

I wish I could believe that's actually what's going on. Given the amount of retconning in the reboot, I wouldn't be surprised if they decided that no, Jason wasn't *really* dead; he was in some kind of coma that Bruce didn't notice before he was buried. Or he wasn't buried at all; Leslie whisked him away to Africa to protest Bruce's violent lifestyle.

[darkknightjrk]

I think they've basically brought in how they resurrected Jason from the Under the Red Hood story, where Talia and Ra's al Ghul just brought him back from the grave wholesale instead of bringing his mind back or whatever happened in the comic.

[icon_uk]

It would be helpful if this was actually referenced at some point.

[filthysize]

"You were as much a son to me. When Joker killed you and Superboy Prime brought you back by punching continuity... We were all... Oh god..."

Not quite as emotional.

[chrisdv]

Or for the same reasons...

"Oh God... I miss how things used to be, with Master Richard wearing blue & Miss Brown as Batgirl..." as opposed to "Oh God... He was so young..."

[deepspaceartist]

Isn't Jason currently on (relatively) good terms with the others? Who's tasing him?

[kafaraqgatri]

probably the "Batman" who was chasing Green Arrow in Justice League of America #1

[icon_uk]

This IS scans_daily, so I was suddenly envisaging Bruce carrying flowers and a box of chocolates as he pursues Ollie (We could get a fun Pepé le Pew type series out of that)

[darkknightjrk]

Hmm, I hadn't thought of that--if I remember correct, Robo-Batman was basically Batman but looked like a robot. I was thinking it might be The Operative, one of Aquaman's former superhero buddies from The Others storyline.

[onceaskrull]

Man, Jason just can't not get injured when at Wayne Manor, can he? He's going to stop coming around.

[chrisdv]

Maybe that's Bruce's plan...

[bj_l]

This whole story proves that Batman, like Green Lantern, should have just kept on it't merry way doing what it was doing.

[mrstatham]

This. Again, either reboot EVERYTHING entirely, or not at all. Because the 'bits and pieces of stuff still apply' method that DC went after has proven to be completely stupid.

[bradygirl_12]

This. Again, either reboot EVERYTHING entirely, or not at all. Because the 'bits and pieces of stuff still apply' method that DC went after has proven to be completely stupid.

*nods*

Either do it all the way or not at all. If you're going to start at the beginning and erase characters, put Dick back in the Robin pixie boots and Babs being Batgirl fits in more seamlessly. Reintroduce Jason and Tim and all the other characters.

I have been interested in people's reactions to this major Reboot. I lost beloved characters in COIE (Linda Danvers, I'm looking at YOU!) and am sorry to see how some characters are being blamed for this reboot (Barry, Barbara, etc). I know it's tough to lose Steph and Cass and Wally, but fans back in the day lost Barry, Linda and a bunch of others and had to live with the new characters. We came to love them, too, so I hope people will give the old/new characters a chance. Just my two cents. *shrugs*

[onceaskrull]

I will never love Barry. Never forget.

On a more serious note, I would say there's a huge difference between how Wally took the mantle from Barry, and how Barry yanked it back from Wally. Barry died a hero; when he came back, Wally was more or less unceremoniously shoved aside, and then completely wiped out of existence. It's not just that certain characters are gone, it's how they were treated (and, by extension, how the fans are treated for having the audacity to care about these characters).

For those fans who lost characters in COIE, if they're still sore about it, I feel they have every right to be. I don't owe DC to try and like Barry Allen as the Flash, and I won't. Likewise DC isn't obligated to bring back Wally for me (obviously), but if they wanted me on-board with the Flash series all they'd have to do is bring back Wally, even as a side character. Until then, I'll keep my $2.99.

[bradygirl_12]

I will say that quite a few of the characters lost in COIE were simply erased out of existence (as if they had never existed at all) and so that rankled. Even the way they brought Wally on board could bring out negative feelings for Barry fans, noble death or not. They changed so much back then, casting Clark and Bruce as enemies more than friends, for instance, and completely rebooting Diana (and that still didn't save her from more reboots in the future, way more than Clark or Bruce ever got). Yeah, some of us are still sore. :)

I try to warm up to Kara Kent but Linda Danvers will always be my Supergirl, just like Barbara is my Batgirl. So I really don't mind that she's back in the cape and cowl, but I understand what Steph and Cass fans are feeling. I think everyone should remember that every character has devoted fans and despite your (general 'your', not you in particular) irritation over how DC's using them, should be mindful of that when saying how you 'hate' certain characters.

Anyway, fans are fans and will love and hate their faves and not-faves. :)

[darkknightjrk]

I hear that a lot, and I honestly don't think that really would have worked either.

I don't think losing Barry in COIE really applies, because what happened there was sort-of progression--Barry still existed, but he died and his former sidekick took his place. What you're talking about is actual, line-wide regression.

And if you think fans lost their minds with the prospect of Steph and Cass no longer being in continuity, how worse do you think it would have been if they took away characters like Tim and Jason too?

It's kinda messy, but I don't fault DC at all for trying to keep what worked and clean up what didn't.

[bradygirl_12]

I can see your POV. I just think it's too much of a patchwork quilt the way they did it. I don't think reboots work that well if you don't have a clean slate. It's all too crammed into a five-year timelines that takes away a lot of development for the Bat-Family in the new universe. Robin as intern doesn't thrill me at all.

[darkknightjrk]

Personally, I just kinda ignore the number of years they give, use my own feeling of the timescale(like with the Bat-family--Bruce was probably around for closer to seven or eight years, with Dick a year or two later and Barbara coming in just before the Justice League starts five years ago) and just focus on the story itself; which is really what I've been doing my whole reading career, to be honest.

Comic book time is NEVER going to make complete sense.

[bradygirl_12]

That's a very healthy attitude! I usually ignore canon completely, LOL! I keep up with it here and the occasional book I buy but I have my own headcanon with which I'm very happy. :)

[kenn_el]

There's a reason that the New 52 Phantom Stranger is Judas.

[junipepper]

So, Jason admits that he misses Damien and is immediately struck by lightning... ok, so it's a taser, but my version is better. :-)

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Come on, Jason! You were a sidekick and you were male! Of course Batman cared about you!