Captain America Versus The Commission

[mrosa]

When I think of an alternative to the hysterics of Mark Millar's Civil War, this is what I think of:

FBI agents track Cap and take him to see The Commission:






The Cap asks time to think, and contacts all the people who may help him, and explores several possible solutions:




He really thinks it through, from several different angles:




He considers a legal solution. And even has time to hear his fans:





And he chooses to give up the shield and the costume, so that he can continue to serve without the government's interference, because his work isn't tied up to symbols. Whenever I read people say that superhero comics are more sophisticated nowadays, I wonder if they've ever read level-headed and grounded stories like this where Cap doesn't behave like a reactionary terrorist starting a civil war in the middle of New York.

(From Captain America #332, 1987)

Comments

[majingojira]

"Sophistication" is an odd word, as people believe it means simply tackling mature subject matters, when in truth, it's about handling them maturely. Unfortunately, a lot of modern comics writing can be summed up in the words "Micheal Bay".

The current apple of my ire is a wonderful example of this sort of thing in its shallowness and oddly squeamishness in comparison to its predecessors, which aren't that old to begin with.

[icon_uk]

Personally I'd say it's not "sophisticated" that gets trotted out too often and misused, it's the word "mature" itself, as it is usually used as shorthand for "Includes scenes of sex and violence, but is actually handled with all the subtlety and depth of a hormonal adolescent using the word "boobies" for the first time out loud"

[majingojira]

That works much better, and well said to boot.

[mrosa]

No, I see the word 'sophistication' thrown a lot in message boards, making it look like comics in the past were for the intellectually stunted, but now they're all for geniuses.

This is Excellent

[steverodgers5]

This storyline from Cap #332 to #350 is my all time favourite Captain America Story. Loved it then. Still love it now.

And your point is very well taken about how Civil War Cap didn't feel like the same person at all. He actually seemed to regress in maturity there!

[alexanderlucard]

I miss the Gruenwald and Stern eras of Captain America. Well, not the end of Gruenwald's run with the Cap-Wolf, streets of poison, forced femitization and fighting chance story arcs, but stuff like this, the Death of the Red Skull, Cap for President and so on.

I haven't cared for what Bendis, Millar, Brubaker, Remainder and the like have done to Steve Rogers. It honestly feels like they had never read a quality Cap story before they got their mitts on him and just started writing a completely different character wearing the uniform. Especially with stories like Avengers Vs. X-Men and Civil War.

[jmacq1]

I wouldn't lump Brubaker in with Bendis, Millar, and Remender. Brubaker clearly had respect for what had come before and IMO handled the character well. It's not really his fault that he occasionally had to shoehorn in aspects of the company-mandated crossovers.

[ensiform]

What a great story, and as you say, maturely handled. There is sophistication in the vocabulary, characterization, and resolution. Thanks for sharing.

[beyondthefringe]

Proof once again that Gruenwald was one of the best comic writers of his generation. I feel safe in saying that his Captain America run, which was running through my teens and later, defined Cap for me in a way no other writer has ever quite managed. He balanced superheroics and private life, and made Cap feel like that symbol of the country. He was a bit corny at times, but the way he interacted with heroes and villains alike was amazing. Trying to get Batroc to go straight, honoring the fallen Porcupine, dating Diamondback... the list goes on and on.

This issue is interesting because the next time we see Ram Ridley of the hotline, just about 100 issues later, he's angry and bitter because Cap wasn't around to save his mother. This was part of Gruenwald's swan song storyline on the title, and an oddly downbeat way to go, in my opinion.

(One wonders how the hotline would fare in today's society. Twitter, perhaps? @TheRealCaptainAmerica Serpent Society spotted in Boca Raton, Fl. #supervillains #snakes #needhelpnow )

[razsolo]

Agreed on all counts! Gruenwald's Cap is my favourite superhero and I like to think shaped my ideas of what a good person is....it's such a shame that so few writers these days seem to place value in that idealism.

Give me occasionally hokey Cap over a Steve Rogers who is implicit in torture any day!

[starwolf_oakley]

This story is probably why CIVIL WAR had Cap going against the government and Iron Man fighting for it. It was originally going to be the other way around. Of course, CIVIL WAR never explained what Cap's big plan or endgame was. CIVIL WAR had a lot of problems, as many of us have said.

THE ADVENTURES OF CAPTAIN AMERICA prestige format miniseries reveals the Captain America costume was based partially on some sketches Steve did.

[mrosa]

It made more sense if Iron Man went against the government. There were too big precedents to that: first, when he stopped SHIELD from becoming Stark Enterprise's major shareholder; second, during the Armor Wars. That I could believe.

On the other hand, we have two instances of Cap abandoning the suit in opposition to the government, first when he became Noman in the Watergate scandal fallout; and during The Commission storyline. In both cases he continued to serve as a hero, but without standing up for America. So I don't believe he'd side the government during CW. More likely he'd try to remain on the sidelines, or even surrender since he'd never fight the American government.

[mrstatham]

Not to mention the fact that Iron Man already dabbled in politics once and then blew it by threatening the representative of another country; How someone who threatened to blast a politician from Latveria managed to get away with being appointed to the top of a government agency to enforce government policy is beyond me.. But then the MU is stupid enough to appoint Norman Osborn as it's champion.

[mrosa]

Yeah, that's why I laugh inwards when people say superhero comics are more sophisticated nowadays.

[sir_mikael]

Great stuff. Very thought out.
It's a bit unclear if Cap just straight up hung up on the lawyer or if they had a long conversation that he hangs up on the end of. He's nice and needed her council so I'm guessing the latter.
Haha, I laughed when RAM said "Even after I start dating!"

[halloweenjack]

RAM reminds me of Justin Long's character in Galaxy Quest.

[glprime]

"That's all very interesting, gentlemen, but I failed to catch the part where I signed a contract that stipulated I reported to any particular branch of the government or any one individual had executive authority over me."

"Well obviously the President-"

"Is stated to be the only own to terminate my contract. You said nothing about them being my commanding officer, nor their ability to delegate control of my actions to another governing body."

"Er-"

"Furthermore, at no time was the phrase 'serve in an official capacity' ever fully detailed or outlined, meaning there is no pre-determined list of things I must do to fulfill my contract. I could be the Official Ice Cream Taster of the United States and still be serving per the ridiculously vague terms you've stated."

"Now see here-"

"And finally, you misunderstand the hierarchy of both our government and our military if you were ever under the misapprehension that a non-congressional civilian committee had any authority to directly issue military orders to a military serviceman that could never be questioned or interpreted by said serviceman against the U.S. Legal Code, the Articles of War and the Uniform Code of Military Justice."

"Um..."

"I'm Captain America, gentlemen. My mandate was to win my country a world war and I did that. Anything I achieve afterwards is icing on your "Congratulations On Still Being Alive And Free" Cake. Do not ask for seconds.

"But-"

"Lawyered."

[richardak]

Your argument kind of falls down on the fact that they aren't claiming to own him, or to have the authority to give him orders, per se. They are claiming that the government owns the trademarks to the name and particular costume of Captain America, and the actual costume itself (including the shield). They are also claiming that he owes the government a large sum of money. If he wants to keep using the name and the costume (including the shield), and not have to repay the money, he has to do what they say. Otherwise, he is free to quit, as he does.

[glprime]

No disputing the trademark points they were raising, but they were specifically making point one to say Cap said he'd work for the government effectively forever, with the comment about their task force being under command of the president making them a part of the government (which again, makes no sense. That means the president tells them what to do and no one else; they don't wield power equivalent to him, and they offer no line of thought that leads to telling Captain America what to do; I mean, for what other purpose would they make point 1?).

And then they state that being an Avenger, a SHIELD operative and even a solo international hero somehow does NOT qualify Cap as acting in an official capacity. Again I ask, how do they intend to prove that? 'Cuz again, they throw so much legal argument out about "owning" Captain America as an identity (pretty airtight, that point), but they do a really terrible job of stating where they have the authority or power to tell Steve whether his actions are or are not fulfilling his sworn obligations to the U.S. government. (Really, the leap between points 4 and 5 is where they go off the rails for me).

But that's just how I'm reading it. I get what points Gruenwald is making within the needs of the story, I just find the situation's logic laughable on its face (intentional, I'm sure).

EDIT: As to the points about money, that's basically blackmail in so many words, unless they produce documentation stating those terms in regards to Steve's military pay, and realistically (I know, I know, COMICS, but they're trying to use logic bombs to fight Cap, so I'm just fighting equivalently) there's no way they can force him into that with the full enforcement of the U.S. government without arbitration (ie, they can't decide in the room he was given the back-pay erroneously and bat down all appeals outside of a court).

[richardak]

They can certainly transmit the President's orders. And, again, they aren't saying that Steve has to do what they say, only that he can't remain Captain America if he doesn't. When he quits, they let him.

[glprime]

I accede to your point as the point of the story, but I just don't follow the logic as outlining anyone but Steve as qualified to determine what Captain America is or is not doing to meet his obligations.

They say they own Captain America. Okay. But that means Steve can't make money off being Captain America, and/or the development costs related to his equipment must be recouped (but nowhere did he sign anything saying he was responsible for Project:Rebirth's costs etc. so that implication's shaky at best as well).

That doesn't mean Steve (the admitted ONLY recipient of Project:Rebirth's final advancements) can't still meet his earlier obligations as fighting for the government in an official capacity. Or being a symbol (thus U.S. Agent).

I mean, the outgoing message the Chair says is, "We ARE the government, we ARE your commanding officers" when no such train of logic has properly been presented.

Again, I get the point of the story, I just read the internal logic as shaky.

[richardak]

I don't know. I think I'd find all that stuff about being "a symbol that transcends mere politics" more persuasive if it weren't transparent nonsense.

[tpsreports]

Too many words and not enough punching. Also throw in a few explosions and made some graphic dismemberments.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Okay, I was thinking this was what led to him becoming the Nomad, but that's apparently already happened. So what did Rogers do after this?

[richardak]

He became the Captain. He had a black costume that looked pretty similar to his old one, which later became the costume of the USAgent. He got a new shield from Tony Stark.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Ah, I see. Okay, thanks!

[richardak]

You're welcome.