Avengers #12: "Evolved"

[superboyprime]

"For these are great works we do."










"...until you come across a predator."

Comments

[damar148]

Okay, how do people not get that there's something wrong with Spidey? I know they tested him but you don't need a MRI to see he's not behaving like himself.

[sadoeuphemist]

I think people have just accepted that Spider-Man can be a real asshole sometimes, and that he's going through one hell of an asshole streak right now.

[auggie18]

I know, right? I don't think Doc Ock was this hammily villainous as an actual villain. (I mean, maybe.) But dude could seriously stand to tone it down. HOW IS NOBODY NOTICING THIS?

[chrisdv]

Well, Wolverine's right over there and he just killed a founding Avenger, so clearly they're letting anyone be an Avenger these days.

...Anyone got the address for Stark Tower, Avengers Mansion, or wherever they're living these days? No reason.

[shadowpsykie]

Spock makes an interesting point...

but yeah, how is no one getting this?

[darkknightjrk]

That's kind-of what I'm enjoying about SpOck in this story--he's a real prick, and he's using his experiences as a super-villain as a guideline...but he isn't inherently giving the kids bad advice. What he was telling the kids as his lesson is that while it is good idea to trust in others, you also have to know how to defend yourself if you are betrayed, if you're expecting to live long enough to do all these great things.

[icon_uk]

Cally - My people have a saying "A man who trusts can never be betrayed, merely disappointed".
Avon - Life expectancy must be very short amongst your people

Blake's 7

[filthysize]

I love the way Hickman is using Ock in this series, actually. I'm sure he originally wanted Spidey in there as comic relief, much the same way he used Pete in FF, but Superior happened, and somehow Hickman still found a way to make Spidey the comic relief of the team while still maintaining the Ock persona.

Yes, it makes no sense that the Avengers are not more alarmed by him, but it sort of works (and hilarious) how they're just letting him and his comments be. He's like Spike in the Scoobies here, always saying inappropriately evil things. The best part of the issue is that Sentry and Iron Man assigned him to teach the children "trust," and instead he teaches them how to snap a person's neck after tricking them.

"How exactly does this help them understand the concept of trust?"
"Isn't it obvious? By teaching them not to give it out."

[darkknightjrk]

The phrasing of it is interesting because the line gives the lesson that trust needs to be earned. However, the question then becomes--does Ock as Spider-Man deserve that trust? Of course, he's been lying to the team this entire time and done some dickish things...but he's also fought alongside them, protected them and watched their backs like any other Avenger.

The execution can...vary, but I can't deny that this whole Superior thing isn't a really interesting idea to play with.

[filthysize]

I'm not sure that's the intent, though. His lesson to the kids was more about that trust can be exploited as weakness, so if you are distrustful they can't use the same against you.

[darkknightjrk]

It might not be what Spock's directly thinking, but I think that interpretation is there for the kids to pick up on.

[stubbleupdate]

That's not The Sentry; it's Hyperion

[protogarrett]

Doctor Octopus is an Avenger.

I just needed to actually say that.

[darkknightjrk]

Hey, so was Sandman, and he didn't even need to steal some guy's body to get in.

[icon_uk]

Yeah, he just had to realise the need to reform off his own back, the personal integrity to do so, and to seek to earn back the trust of everyone around him.

DARN YOU BYRNE!!!!

[chrisdv]

Clearly a story of a villain reforming & genuinely earning redemption doesn't fit with the comic about power & responsibility, and a story of a guy who tried to kill everyone on Earth just two weeks ago taking the easy way out does.

[captainbellman]

...These backgrounds are just filtered photographs, aren't they.

[darkknightjrk]

I've also been told that Deodato often draws over 3D models for his people too.

[captainbellman]

I find that hard to believe, given some of the really weird positions and proportions he twists women into.

[darkknightjrk]

I think that's more of his 90s past clinging to him--from what I've seen, he's done a lot better with that as of late. Besides, from what I've heard, you can bend Poser models to anything you want.

[venatosapiens]

So, am I the only one really disappointed that the Therizinosaur didn't appear in the issue?

[captainbellman]

GOD, yes! They're my third favourite species next to Amargasaurs and Baryonx'!

[starwolf_oakley]

As a teenager, Peter Parker was teased a lot by his classmates
As a teenager, Otto Octavius was beaten savagly by his father.

Peter can gripe about Flash Thompson all he wants, but Otto has a better understanding of being bullied and looking out for "predators."

[captainbellman]

Depends on which stories you're talking about. Besides, abuse is abuse. I don't think it's anyone's place to say that one kind is more 'valid' than another.

[theflames]

But you can get a decent idea of which is going to have of an effect on you. OR which one you're going to learn the darker, but more essential lessons from.

One must simply remember to not claim that their tragedy nullifies someone elses 'smaller' tragedy. That's just idiotic.

[icon_uk]

Umm, whilst this is cute and all, there's a part of me thinking, when we see Tony and Thor talking about protecting the new species children where I find myself wondering... "Did you EVER have discussion like these about all the mutant kids being victimised, persecued and killed? even in New York?"

[dr_archeville]

*searches futilely for the LIKE button*

[chrisdv]

Maybe they learnt something from AvX?

[biod]

I'll respond to this when I manage to stop my fit of helpless laughter.

[blunderbuss]

Okay, I know this is slightly hypocritical of me because I complain about stupid comic book logic all the time, but they don't because they CAN'T. Because if they decided to actually do something about saving and protecting mutants, they'd be stealing a massive chunk of the Xmen's plots. The Xmen only really WORK when mutants are feared and persecuted, otherwise they're just another team of super-powered people. These little zebra kids don't have that thematic baggage.

[icon_uk]

Well, that's the real reason of course, but there is still a sense of a chronic disconnect when a hero in the MU goes all gaga over the juvenile (and cute) members of a new species who need to be nurtured and protected when they've been available for the entirety of his modern heroic career and he's never expressed that concern.

[jlbarnett]

So, the Iron man armor styled after the MC2 character Mainframe, is actually basically Mainframe.

[obsidianwolf]

Unless the armor is an actual AI(I loved when Mainframe told off Tony that time) then it isn't basically Mainframe.

This is basically a much more advanced version of the remote armor he had for a while that ended when it got destroyed and the psychic schock led to his epiphany about his dad's abuse leading to a lot of his bad decisions.

OT Icon love

[kamino_neko]

5555 rocks the house.

[cypherfdp]

Does Hyperion have a crotch bulge in his metal briefs?

[icon_uk]

He hammered that bulge into his briefs himself.

And by his hammer, I totally mean his penis...

[lieut_kettch]

"Shiny Package" is part of his powerset.

[icon_uk]

I'm slightly disconcerted that he has the radiation hazard symbol just above his crotch and his team-mates are still prepared to stand anywhere near him.

[captainbellman]

Just once - ONCE - I'd like to see the word "Evolution" used in a superhero comic when referring to something resembling actual scientific evolution. The closest any of this comes to is artificial selection, but it's actually more like a kind of controlled anthropology.

[zechs80]

I've realized why the Avengers accept Spock. They've all separately had a 90s EXTREME phase. They just assume this phase has finally hit Pete.

[thanekos]

At last, the Spider-Man has embraced proactivity over reactivity.

[drmcninja]

To be quite honest, I hate Hyperion as a character existing in the 616. His costume, his power set, none of it quite fits alongside the other heroes. Too ersatz, and all that. But if this is how he's going to be written, I think I can work with it.

[mola_ram]

Hmm...
Option 1; Climb a mountain to find a find a enchanted rock...
Option 2; Ride a Stegosaurus all day long...

Sorry Thor, but screw your magic rock. It conflicts with my 24 hour Stegosaurus riding schedule.

[icon_uk]

Will a triceratops do?

[mola_ram]

ooooh yes!
Could Mjolnir be considered a suitable substitution for a ping pong ball?
That way "Tricia"'ll come straight back home once Mjolnir returns to Thor.