In the pantheon of comicbook characters, there are some that people can't stand even if other people seem to be big fans. In my case, there are probably three characters that I have an intense dislike of.
One is Kara Zor-El, from when she was introduced by Jeph Loeb up until after the Cass Cain Incident, where she became a lot more likeable. Her behaviour was retconned as it being Kryptonite poisoning, which I guess makes sense in a comicbooky way. Her feeling entitled to the perks of being related to Superman while a) beating up every superhero she met (who then thought she was the best person ever afterwards), and b) repeatedly being incredibly selfish while exhibiting annoyance when people asked her for help, didn't really endear me to her.

People who get given a free ride (unlimited cash from Bruce Wayne and a mentorship with Wonder Woman among other things) and doing horrible things without consequence kind of bug me. I mean, her behaviour is believable, in a spoilt, entitled brat kind of way, but considering I was reading about characters who had terrible backgrounds yet still managed to be good people despite it... yeah, Kara came off as kind of loathsome.
With the character of Misfit they had kind of the same problem, though approached from another angle. With Supergirl she felt entitled to a certain level of treatment because of who her relatives were, while with Misfit she just assumed that she deserved to be the treated like she was the best thing ever because she thought that she was.
Things probably weren't helped by her introduction, which in the midst of the "Where's Cass" business of One Year Later, showed the people of Gotham as being both ungrateful for Cass' service to their city and kind of gross in how they remembered Bab's tenure.


Smooth, but implying that Cass was just a fake proxy of Babs, while at the same time reducing Babsgirl (and Misfit by proxy) to just a "Killer" pair of breasts. Nice.
Considering Cass had vanished at this point after going to Serbia to look for Lady Shiva, Babs sends the Birds of Prey out to see whether this new Batgirl is her protege as no one had seen her during the time 52 was set, beyond a reference to her operating (offpanel) out of Seattle for a time.
After a brief run-in with Dinah and Helena, Charlie desides to teleport into Babs' HQ and declare that she's the new Batgirl. Understandibly Barbara is concerned over some random teenage teleporting into her headquarters and displaying knowledge over things she really shouldn't, but Charlie just interprets this as the standard "superheroes distrust each other when they first meet" trope.
With this in mind, she attempts to use the follow-up cliche to that one, where-in she kicks the wheelchair using Barbara in the face. With it previously being established that Charlie has a degree of superstrength.







Okay, two things: 1. I know that Babs can handle herself, but kicking people out of wheelchairs just isn't something you DO, and 2. considering Steph's death was later shown to be fake and the photos are of some poor anonymous drug addict Leslie swapped out for Steph so she could smuggle her out of the country, Barbara having the photos so ready to hand is kinda gross.
Anyways, the Birds later find out that Charlie is actually homeless, her family having burnt to death in an apartment fire that she wasn't able to save them from (Charlie's teleportation power makes other people explode if she tries to take them with her... don't ask her how she knows this), so Babs caves and sort of adopts her.
As such Charlie is made a member of the team though just whether that's a good thing is up to debate. At one points, in a crossover with the Secret Six, she ended up getting into a fight with Harley Quinn, in which she resorted to her ultimate fighting technique: hurtful namecalling.

At this point Charlie wasn't an official member of the team, as such, which resulted in the older member's plans occasionally being derailed due to her Scrappy Doo-ish need to insert herself into the action all the time. This resulted in her grating the nerves of some of her teammates...

This culminated in Misfit deciding to teleport herself into a mech's cockpit while it was stomping around Metropolis, and making it explode by pressing random buttons. This makes a large area of the city seemingly vanish, and eventually results in the Birds of Prey getting evicted from the city by Superman.
Prior to the eviction though, Barbara suspected that the exploding mecha might have been magical in nature, so she calls in Black Alice to give an assessment. The BoP had previously attempted to hire Alice, but a combination of various reasons made her decline, such as her then untreated mental illness. At this point though, Black Alice is trying to make an effort to be a superhero, has gotten treatment and is trying to help out Bab's with her problem...
...The problem is that Misfit feels that Babs bringing in Lori so soon after the Mech Incident is less Babs wanting an expert to help out, and more Babs wanting to replace her for possibly killing thousands of people by accident. This results in, you've guess it, childish namecalling with a sideorder of bullying the mentally ill person!



Later...




And so, Charlie makes Black Alice relapse into supervillain again. Good job.
Eventually in the lead-up to Final Crisis occurred, with that mess of a storyline where Granny Goodness was apparently kidnapping superpowered teenagers in order to make them fight each other to the death so the survivors could be Darkseid's army... or something. It only tangentially relates to Morrison's story, which really works better as a self-contained work (besides the Batman-related stuff at least).
Anyway, in that arc Charlie and Alice... or Lori as her real name is, turn out to be half-sisters. Which was confusing for so many reasons. Nothing overtly bad happened here from what I remember, besides Livewire having to loose to Charlie in a cagefight (hey, I liked DCU!Livewire, she tried so hard by never got anywhere! :().

Oddly, you'd have thought that after Cass was debrainwashed that she or at least Steph would have met Charlie at some point, despite Babs deciding to fob her off on Huntress to look after instead at the end of the Calculator arc. However, despite a brief cameo in Adam Beechen's Cass Cain mini-series (urggghhh) Charlie's final preboot appearance was when Barbara announced that she was going to make Oracle more secret than she was originally, more of a shadowy figure than the superhero community's IT department.


Urgh, still maintain that Cass isn't there because Babs warned her Charlie had invited herself first.
I guess that I can understand why people would like Misfit, as there's always an audience for "quirky" characters... I just felt it was jarring going from the likes of Steph and Cass to someone who is essentially Scrappy Doo with enforced pathos.
There are characters who are jerks that are also entertaining or have some depth to their personality, such as Revy from Black Lagoon or Haruhi Suzumiya from the franchise of the same name. Even the massive entitlement complex is something that Charlie shared with Selina Kyle, who also grew up homeless in Gotham, and subconsciously stole to overcompensate, but she outrgew it in the end. But I kind of get the impression that Charlie wasn't intended to be as horrible as she ended up, which is actually kind of depressing.
One is Kara Zor-El, from when she was introduced by Jeph Loeb up until after the Cass Cain Incident, where she became a lot more likeable. Her behaviour was retconned as it being Kryptonite poisoning, which I guess makes sense in a comicbooky way. Her feeling entitled to the perks of being related to Superman while a) beating up every superhero she met (who then thought she was the best person ever afterwards), and b) repeatedly being incredibly selfish while exhibiting annoyance when people asked her for help, didn't really endear me to her.

People who get given a free ride (unlimited cash from Bruce Wayne and a mentorship with Wonder Woman among other things) and doing horrible things without consequence kind of bug me. I mean, her behaviour is believable, in a spoilt, entitled brat kind of way, but considering I was reading about characters who had terrible backgrounds yet still managed to be good people despite it... yeah, Kara came off as kind of loathsome.
With the character of Misfit they had kind of the same problem, though approached from another angle. With Supergirl she felt entitled to a certain level of treatment because of who her relatives were, while with Misfit she just assumed that she deserved to be the treated like she was the best thing ever because she thought that she was.
Things probably weren't helped by her introduction, which in the midst of the "Where's Cass" business of One Year Later, showed the people of Gotham as being both ungrateful for Cass' service to their city and kind of gross in how they remembered Bab's tenure.


Smooth, but implying that Cass was just a fake proxy of Babs, while at the same time reducing Babsgirl (and Misfit by proxy) to just a "Killer" pair of breasts. Nice.
Considering Cass had vanished at this point after going to Serbia to look for Lady Shiva, Babs sends the Birds of Prey out to see whether this new Batgirl is her protege as no one had seen her during the time 52 was set, beyond a reference to her operating (offpanel) out of Seattle for a time.
After a brief run-in with Dinah and Helena, Charlie desides to teleport into Babs' HQ and declare that she's the new Batgirl. Understandibly Barbara is concerned over some random teenage teleporting into her headquarters and displaying knowledge over things she really shouldn't, but Charlie just interprets this as the standard "superheroes distrust each other when they first meet" trope.
With this in mind, she attempts to use the follow-up cliche to that one, where-in she kicks the wheelchair using Barbara in the face. With it previously being established that Charlie has a degree of superstrength.







Okay, two things: 1. I know that Babs can handle herself, but kicking people out of wheelchairs just isn't something you DO, and 2. considering Steph's death was later shown to be fake and the photos are of some poor anonymous drug addict Leslie swapped out for Steph so she could smuggle her out of the country, Barbara having the photos so ready to hand is kinda gross.
Anyways, the Birds later find out that Charlie is actually homeless, her family having burnt to death in an apartment fire that she wasn't able to save them from (Charlie's teleportation power makes other people explode if she tries to take them with her... don't ask her how she knows this), so Babs caves and sort of adopts her.
As such Charlie is made a member of the team though just whether that's a good thing is up to debate. At one points, in a crossover with the Secret Six, she ended up getting into a fight with Harley Quinn, in which she resorted to her ultimate fighting technique: hurtful namecalling.

At this point Charlie wasn't an official member of the team, as such, which resulted in the older member's plans occasionally being derailed due to her Scrappy Doo-ish need to insert herself into the action all the time. This resulted in her grating the nerves of some of her teammates...

This culminated in Misfit deciding to teleport herself into a mech's cockpit while it was stomping around Metropolis, and making it explode by pressing random buttons. This makes a large area of the city seemingly vanish, and eventually results in the Birds of Prey getting evicted from the city by Superman.
Prior to the eviction though, Barbara suspected that the exploding mecha might have been magical in nature, so she calls in Black Alice to give an assessment. The BoP had previously attempted to hire Alice, but a combination of various reasons made her decline, such as her then untreated mental illness. At this point though, Black Alice is trying to make an effort to be a superhero, has gotten treatment and is trying to help out Bab's with her problem...
...The problem is that Misfit feels that Babs bringing in Lori so soon after the Mech Incident is less Babs wanting an expert to help out, and more Babs wanting to replace her for possibly killing thousands of people by accident. This results in, you've guess it, childish namecalling with a sideorder of bullying the mentally ill person!



Later...




And so, Charlie makes Black Alice relapse into supervillain again. Good job.
Eventually in the lead-up to Final Crisis occurred, with that mess of a storyline where Granny Goodness was apparently kidnapping superpowered teenagers in order to make them fight each other to the death so the survivors could be Darkseid's army... or something. It only tangentially relates to Morrison's story, which really works better as a self-contained work (besides the Batman-related stuff at least).
Anyway, in that arc Charlie and Alice... or Lori as her real name is, turn out to be half-sisters. Which was confusing for so many reasons. Nothing overtly bad happened here from what I remember, besides Livewire having to loose to Charlie in a cagefight (hey, I liked DCU!Livewire, she tried so hard by never got anywhere! :().

Oddly, you'd have thought that after Cass was debrainwashed that she or at least Steph would have met Charlie at some point, despite Babs deciding to fob her off on Huntress to look after instead at the end of the Calculator arc. However, despite a brief cameo in Adam Beechen's Cass Cain mini-series (urggghhh) Charlie's final preboot appearance was when Barbara announced that she was going to make Oracle more secret than she was originally, more of a shadowy figure than the superhero community's IT department.


Urgh, still maintain that Cass isn't there because Babs warned her Charlie had invited herself first.
I guess that I can understand why people would like Misfit, as there's always an audience for "quirky" characters... I just felt it was jarring going from the likes of Steph and Cass to someone who is essentially Scrappy Doo with enforced pathos.
There are characters who are jerks that are also entertaining or have some depth to their personality, such as Revy from Black Lagoon or Haruhi Suzumiya from the franchise of the same name. Even the massive entitlement complex is something that Charlie shared with Selina Kyle, who also grew up homeless in Gotham, and subconsciously stole to overcompensate, but she outrgew it in the end. But I kind of get the impression that Charlie wasn't intended to be as horrible as she ended up, which is actually kind of depressing.
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Date: 2013-07-23 10:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-23 10:57 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-07-23 12:06 pm (UTC)And to be fair she didn't have unlimited funding from Bruce she sold him some Kryptonian tech for one million dollars. Still outside her own book she was much better and there were some good ideas in there.
But yes things got much better when Gates took over and it wasn't that much of a retcon either, it made perfect sense... "You've been having dellusions, waking dreams and rapid mood changes... hey maybe there's a neurological reason for it, like toxicity in your system!"
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Date: 2013-07-24 04:22 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-07-23 12:48 pm (UTC)Charlie might have worked somewhere else besides the Batbooks. She stands out like a sore thumb with all the other characters.
On the upside, if Cass and Steph are unlikely to be coming back into the fold any time soon, I would expect Charlie's chances are next to zero.
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Date: 2013-07-23 01:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-23 01:32 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-07-23 01:22 pm (UTC)A lot of the non-gail Stuff didn't work well because I think the writer didn't get that she wasn't really part of the team, but a tolerated . . . misfit with nowhere else to go.
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Date: 2013-07-23 01:50 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-23 01:59 pm (UTC)Weirdly enough, Supergirl bothered me for the same exact reason.
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Date: 2013-07-23 09:17 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-07-23 03:11 pm (UTC)i also think that this seems like unneaded character bashing. there are ways to show you dislike a character with out it coming off as straight up bashing them, which i thought was frowned on here....
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Date: 2013-07-23 08:25 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-07-23 05:21 pm (UTC)That said, this is the same Oracle that found it okay to continue employing a girl Misfit's age after the bullshit she pulled using Not!Steph's corpse. Because employing a sixteen year old with a temperament like Charlie's makes SO much sense on a quasi-black ops team.
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Date: 2013-07-23 06:14 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-07-23 08:40 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2013-07-23 05:37 pm (UTC)Charlie and Black Alice were examples of how TERRIBLE Barbara was at mentoring young heroines. As were Cassandra and Stephanie, really.
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Date: 2013-07-23 06:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-23 07:57 pm (UTC)it would have been nice if
"25, after I finished my PhD, why do you ask?"
had been an answer, but I suppose that was retconned by this point.
I haven't seen enough about Misfit to like or dislike her, but I can sort of see where her presentation could be grating to some, such as starting out showing off by using Babs name all the time to brag that she knew the secret. That sort of thing doesn't make me warm to the character, but I suspect I wasn't really intended to at this point.
I think it depends on separating a character who is written badly, from a character who is written well, but just isn't necessarily a pleasant character...
I can respect the work that has gone into a character whilst acknowledging that I don't LIKE that character.
I had much the same reaction to Sunspot in the New Mutants. He was an irritating, arrogant spoiled little brat most of the time, with that's because he was deliberately written to be.
Or Tony DiNozzo on NCIS, his character is heroic (and Michael Weatherly seems like a perfectly charming man in real life, and I thought him slightly lovely in the "Dark Angel" TV series), but I could happily punch the character on general principle for being something of an arrogant, self-serving git.
So I can admire their aims and achievements, but I wouldn't want to be stuck in a lift with them for any length of time.
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Date: 2013-07-23 09:25 pm (UTC)I'm pretty sure it was. I got the impression that Batgirl: Year One deaged her to the point where she was in her very early twenties at the most.
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Date: 2013-07-23 09:01 pm (UTC)I was always thought Grant Morrison made a mistake during Final Crisis and turning Mary Marvel into a corrupted villian (which in turn made her a running joke character in Countdown) because it would have made much more sense based on the Supergirl character established at that point for Kara to turn into Darkseid's minion (and indeed she had been corrupted by him before in her first Loeb/Turner arc). It would make her more likeable and sympathetic portrayal following Final Crisis make sense if she had been the one to go through that (as it is the rest of the super-hero community pretty much seemed to ignore Mary Marvel after FC so Geoff Johns could make her evil yet AGAIn in JSA) Morrison was actually going against her character as written at that point in Final Crisis (it shows he never read the actual Supergirl book and said he based her personality on her one-off appearance in Waid's Brave and the Bold).
As for Misfit, I didn't mind the character (in small doses) but I felt she was all wrong for the Bat-Verse. A character with actual super-powers (and one who was very casual about using them at that) in Gotham never seemed to fit. It also started the unfortunate trend in pre-reboot Babs of her ditching her teenage protegees without a word and just collecting others. I blame Bryan Miller rather than Simone for this but it was disconcerting to see Babs in the Batgirl title pick up Steph and Wendy and take them in while literally never mentioning Misfit or Cass (both of whom regarded Babs as a mother/sister figure).
Also, was that dismissive "mopey" line about Cass basically being dismissed in comparison to Babs and her big boobs (since when?) really written by Gail Simone? Wow.I must have missed that the first time around.
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Date: 2013-07-23 09:30 pm (UTC)...Holy shit, I never thought of that until now. That would have been pretty cool. Plus it would have worked in that it would have meant that the condensed form of the Marvel Family would have saved the DCU, more or less.
I liked Misfit.
Date: 2013-07-23 10:48 pm (UTC)Misfit was established as having a villain as a father. I presume it was also Black Alice's father but the book ended before anything more could be explored. The accident in Metropolis was going to be dealt with, but again, na-da.
Charlie said her powers scared her mother. Idolizing Batgirl, she decided that genetics wouldn't dictate her future. So even though she was poor, unpopular, homeless, and watched her family burn to death, she stayed positive.
I always thought it was very out of character to have Babs just dump Charlie and Lori. Two powerful, messed up teens that needed to belong. Editorial has the final word.
In the end I hope Misfit and Black Alice don't make it into the DCnU, leave them in multiverse limbo.
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Date: 2013-07-23 10:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-23 11:53 pm (UTC)Doesn't mean it was a good idea, but at least its not a case of a Breakout Character backfiring.
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Date: 2013-07-24 02:54 am (UTC)And then Gail was of Birds of Prey and I cannot remember who the writer was after her but sweet zombie jesus did the entire book go into the crapper after that. And Charlie became just a spoiled brat, which is something she *never* was before.
Kara I totally agree with you on, she was terrible until Sterling Gates got his hands on her.
What this all seems to be, summed up, is "Characters written by bad writers are bad."
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Date: 2013-07-24 03:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-07-24 05:37 am (UTC)when I got around to itbut it always turned into hot make-out sessions for some reason."They bullet is awfully intact for something pulled out of a human spine. And awfully big, for that matter; unless it still somehow has the casing on it. In which case, it's a fake as those photos of Steph's corpse.