Flash #22

[chrisdv]

So, as seen back in the preview (scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/4397705.html), Barry has hooked Iris up with her own "Lady Flash" costume to prevent the Reverse-Flash from tracking her down, since he's figured that if the Reverse-Flash can track people with a connection to the Speed Force, then it makes no sense for himself to not have been targeted yet since he's. y'know. The Flash & all.

After a trip to the Utah Salts, Barry & Iris head to the Central City Crime Lab to get Patty Spivot to examine a piece of a monorail caught in a Speed Force explosion. This, of course, points Barry in the direction of recurring pain in the ass, Dr Darwin Elias. Rather than take Iris directly to the potential "Speed Force Killer" on a silver platter, Barry takes option 2 - The slighty less dumb one of having your former wife by virtue of reboot being babysat by your current girlfriend.



So yeah. It clearly goes well. (Also: Someone kindly tell Patty that she & Barry are as "meant to be" as Britney Spears & that guy she married in Vegas that one time.)

On a sidenote, these panels have given birth to a new theory of mine regarding the end of Flashpoint - Remember how Patty was randomly reintroduced in the arc just before Flashpoint started & was clearly bitter over Barry & Iris becoming "Barry & Iris", before randomly becoming the new Hot Pursuit (Time Cop with a Speed Force-powered motorcycle who was an alternate version of Barry who was killed by the Reverse-Flash in the same arc) during Flashpoint? My new (Very unlikely) theory is that she went back & screwed around in the timestream, leading to some of the changes we've seen in the Flash's world since the reboot.

And so, we catch up with Dr Elias, and learn THE SHOCKING TRUTH OF THE REVERSE-FLASH'S IDENTIY!


Namely that isn't him. Which actually is surprising, since it'd been pretty obviously telegraphed that Elias was the New 52's Reverse-Flash before this.

Unless it actually is him, just a future version of him who came back in time to this moment to complete some time loop that sees him become the Reverse-Flash, or something like that.


The Flash arrives, and promptly gets his ass kicked.

I really liked the apparent twist with Elias & the Reverse-Flash. It seemed too obvious that it was going to be him, so I'm glad it doesn't appear to be now.

Comments

[kd_the_movie]

Frankly I hope it is Wally just for the sake of having him back.

[nate_abril96]

No.

[chrisdv]

Any reason?

[icon_uk]

Because bringing him back solely to become a murdering evil bastard is not terribly likely to endear the character to his old fans?

[chrisdv]

No, I get that.

But simply saying "No." doesn't exactly provide a reason.

[nate_abril96]

My reason is simply icon_uk's answer.

[tugrul]

Just "No." is a very powerful statement. :)

[nate_abril96]

Yes.

[deepspaceartist]

Maybe Wally trapped outside time because his powers prevented him from being erased when Flashpoint Retgone'd him? But Iris and Jai were lost because thie powers were weaker and Linda had no protection at all. And having seen what Barry accidentally did to the timeline, he's doing whatever it takes to restore the old one and his family, even if it requires killing this new Barry.

I could see it working.

[zabilac]

That would make me lose all respect for Wally. Even if I understand it.

[chrisdv]

Whilst I think Wally should be the Reverse-Flash, I think if it was Pre-Flashpoint Wally, it wouldn't work.

A Wally who grew up with his father in jail & bitter at Iris over not being able to prove his innocence, and then somehow learnt of the life he would have had if not for the Flash, that he would have had a wife & two kids, that he would have been a resepected member of the Justice League? I could see that Wally becoming the Reverse-Flash if he gained access to the Speed Force.

[icon_uk]

Bart was the one with retcon immunity.... until of course DCnU retconned him all over the place.

[deepspaceartist]

Wasn't Bart not so much immune to time changes as it took time to affect him because he's from 1000 years in the future?

[icon_uk]

Not that I recall, he seemed completely immune to changes in the timestream there was even an issue devoted to the concept

[skemono]

Uh, that link you provided to back you up says the opposite:

Bart’s backstory is so full of time travel that it takes a long time for changes in the time stream to catch up to him. The latter part of that is what makes it interesting to me. He isn’t completely immune to changes in the time stream.

[minervasolo]

My recollection of that issue (I'd need to dig it out of storage to check) is that it does explicitly say that that changes to the time stream don't affect him, despite what the commentary on that post says. That, after all, is why he's picked to do it, and the issue itself never offers any evidence the Linear Men are wrong.

Other evidence included the fact he turned up in 'current day' continuity before the reboot to the Legion etc that would make it possible for him to exist (that must have give writers some headaches) and World Without Young Justice. He even disconnected the current continuity from his own timeline in Teen Titans with no ill affect, when they travelled forward in time and rebooted the Legion. However, after that point his previous immunity appears to have been forgotten, since when he came back after having died he was shown as losing his memory of future events. You could argue dying broke it, but I think the writers just forgot.

I was kinda hoping that nuBart was the same old Bart, having survived the change in continuity again. But the more I see of him, the happier I am it isn't so, and old Bart remains unsullied.

One thing that always tickled me about Bart - whenever we saw adult versions, Adult Impulses were always really tall, while Adult Kid Flashes were on the short side of average. Obviously the change in costume stunted his growth.

[darkknightjrk]

Why would you want Wally to become a villain?

[kd_the_movie]

Id take "back and as a villain" vs. not existing at all.

If DC at least acknowledges him, that provides a means to rehabilitate him. Especially given all of the wacky time travel/alternate universe hijinx The Flash is known for.

Heel face turns happen all the time in comics. LIke yeah everyone points to the heroes who were already kinda morally grey anyway like the Maximoffs or the Surfer but there have been complete monsters that have turned a new leaf like Emma Frost, Earth Man of the LoSH, Black Adam during the JSA era, Magneto, you could even make a case for Sinestro (not really reformed, but lived up to his true goal the entire time which was bring some sort of order to the universe).

[zabilac]

Yeah, Patty's comment that that she & Barry are as "meant to be" kind've annoyed me. Although, as much as I don't like her, I wouldn't go so far as to theorize she rebooted the entire universe just to be with Barry.

[chrisdv]

I should clarify, I didn't mean Patty was the reason for the reboot but rather some of the changes to the Flash family like Iris & Barry's relationship.

[zabilac]

Well, if you take Patty out of the equation Barry and Iris MIGHT get together again. Although, currently Wally doesn't in in this universe so...

[chrisdv]

Well, if you recall that Iris & Barry's first date went south because she was planning to ask if he could take a look at the evidence behind her brother's arrest.

That seems like one thing that would easily change the whole complexion of the Flash family, from Barry & Iris dating; to Wally's mother becoming distant with the Wests when he was still a kid, or maybe not even being born, depending on when Daniel was arrested.

Of course, that's assuming Daniel West is Wally's father & not just his Uncle.

[zabilac]

That's why I said MIGHT.

We don't really know that much about Daniel other than he's Iris' brother, been to jail, and apparently has a very strained relationship with his father.

[yvonmukluk]

Is it me or does she happen to resemble one of the many faces of Carlie Cooper?

[chrisdv]

Hadn't noticed before, but now I can't unsee it.

[darkknightjrk]

I don't see a problem with Patty's line--I mean, this is a guy who she's known for several years, who became friends with him, became lovers, and now he's let her in on this big secret of his that just about no one else knows. I can see why she feels like this is a big, serious relationship with her.

I really do like these two as a couple--and while it's obvious that they're setting up a love triangle and Iris will likely "win," I do hope that Patty is let off nicely and she continues to play a role, since I have grown to like the character.

[silverhammerman]

Part of it could be the art in that panel, Patty's facial expression casts her comment in a weird light. If she were grinning or looking smitten or something it would work, but that close mouthed side eye just makes it look like she thinks Iris is asking a dumb question, and it comes off as a rude dismissal.

[darkknightjrk]

I suppose--but to be fair, Iris was kind-of dumped on Patty's lap while she was working, so I guess you could say she's half-focused on her job right there.

[zabilac]

To me, it's that the art makes it look like she's being smug and (briefly) rubbing it in Iris' face.

[silverhammerman]

I really want to like this book, but the pacing was just such a pain for me when I last read it. It felt like each issue was a single segment from a TV show, and the commercial breaks were each a month long. The structure just killed any momentum the story had for me.

Has it gotten any better on that front? Because I actually do really love the tone and direction of this series.

[chrisdv]

Not really.

It didn't help that the Gorilla Warfare arc just dragged on...

[silverhammerman]

Yeah, I dropped it after that finally wrapped. I mean, evil gorillas are great and all, but it was like five months of gorillas, and each issue barely moved the story forward. It was especially frustrating because I actually really liked the second arc, and it looked like the book had finally hit its stride, only to grind to a near standstill once again.

Not to mention that the book hasn't even used its pacing to explore stuff that I actually find interesting. Like, the Pied Piper seems like probably the single most interesting character in the book, and I still don't know shit about him.

[auggie18]

There's something pretty ironic about a Flash comic dragging to a standstill.

[icon_uk]

Reminds me of the later Barry issues pre-CoIE, the Flash should not have SLOW storytelling.

[darkknightjrk]

It's interesting you say that, because I feel like the pacing of the book feels like a classic comic or a serialized TV show, where there are multiple, interesting sub-plots moving around each other.

[silverhammerman]

Weirdly enough, what made the pacing especially bad for me was that I didn't feel like there were any of those sorts of subplots weaving around each other, it just came off as a single story being told in the slowest fashion imaginable. The Flash only doing one thing of note in each issue wouldn't have bothered me so much if I'd seen other characters also doing things that interested me.

[starwolf_oakley]

Wally being the new Reverse Flash would be too much like how Sinestro went "bad" in the newer continuity. I'll borrow a bit from The Simpsons:

"Chaotic universe and dead wife make Sinestro something something."
"...Go crazy?"
"DON'T MIND IF I DO!"

"Rebooted timeline and erased family make Wally something something."
"...Become the new Reverse Flash?"
"DON'T MIND IF I DO!"

[zapbiffpow]

I wish Flash and Reverse-Flash could have fought for longer than three pages this issue. Those two can really rack up some creative fights, given enough pages.

Also, when is Wally coming back? I want to see a training montage issue with him and Barry in the future.

[thatnickguy]

I know a lot of people miss Wally. I do, too. But I'm actually kind of glad he's not a part of the new 52.

For one, with some very few exceptions, like Swamp Thing, Batwoman, Aquaman, Snyder's Batman, and Animal Man, I hate the new 52. I don't like how they've made almost everyone dark, edgy, extreme, and...well, a lot like 90s Image. I don't like Superman & Wonder Woman together because it shouldn't work (not to mention doesn't exactly help either of them stay grounded with humanity). I HATE that the Flash's rogue gallery all have super powers instead of guys with gadgets.

Given all that, I would be just afraid of what they could possibly do to Wally that would make us hate him, too.

Second, and most important, Wally honestly had the best overall storyarc of just about ANY superhero. He debuted as a rambunctious teen, hesitantly took over the mantle of his mentor, grew to not only suit the role but arguably surpass his mentor, then essentially retired with his wife and kids when Barry returned. I say essentially because we really didn't see much of him once Barry came back.

Wally, of any other superhero, had the perfect storyarc with a great beginning, middle, and *gasp* happy ending.

So yeah, Wally is gone. I miss the hell out of him. But I don't miss him enough that I want DC to bring him back and ruin what made me love him, like they've done just about the rest of their rebooted universe. I hope he NEVER comes back and he can enjoy retirement.

[chrisdv]

Thing is, DC didn't show us this, and that's my problem with it.

If Wally was retiring from the life, then make a big deal about it - he's a Silver Age character who the readers had seen go from kid sidekick to member of the Justice League, and for 25 years he was the Flash, one of DC's premier characters. People would want to see him get a happy ending rather dying (Ultimate Peter Parker), becoming a villain (Hal/Parallax), or continuing to fight the "never ending battle" like every other superhero.

Instead, he gets swiftly ignored in favor of Saint Barry & reduced to the role of background character.

[onceaskrull]

Yup. It's not so much that I just REALLY WANT to see what new and extreme changes they'd make to Wally's character. If/when he comes back in the DCnu, I'm sure I'll be quite apprehensive. Since the reboot, my level of caring about the Batman titles, for example, has gone from "MUST BUY EVERY TITLE" to "eh, is this even worth skimming in a scans_daily post?"

It's everything surrounding Wally's trip to nonexistence, from the resurrection of Saint Barry and how Wally was subsequently treated to now, where he doesn't even exist. It's been a smack to the face to Wally fans. Really, I get that DC can't meet EVERY demand to have EVERY character appear in the DCnu right away, but there are a handful of characters (Wally/Donna/Cass/Steph, to name perhaps the most prominent ones) who have been seriously mishandled for years and loved by (some) fans in spite of this mishandling. I hope DC finds a place for them, extra super bonus points if they're handled well. Put Wally in as a side character to Flash who shows up maybe once every three months and I would STILL make the Flash a monthly title.

[ablackraptor]

I've been thinking, if DC's REALLY just waiting for the 'right story/moment' to bring certain characters back, this could bring about various way's the reintroduce Wally.

Either A, he's Reverse Flash, angry about what his life could have been like, making him something like Superboy Prime. (Hopefully not)
B, He's one of the people now connected to the Speed Force, and will be a Reverse Flash victim who gets killed. (REALLY hope not)
C, Same as above, but Barry will save him before he gets to him and helps train him.
D, We'll see Wally near the end of the arc, and he'll be the one who gets the collected Speed Force energy gathered above; Barry will use him to help stop Reverse Flash, then take him on as a sidekick.
E, After all is said and done, and Barry and Iris are slowly growing closer, Iris will introduce him to her nephew, and he'll end up becoming a somewhat helpful side character with no powers for now.


If its one of the options that results in him gaining powers, I'd like him to maybe go by Impulse for a while, or possibly another, similar name to Flash (Maybe something like 'Gold Flash' and have a colour-inverted costume of some kind). If he doesn't take the name Impulse (or doesn't get brought), and Iris DOES get to keep some Speed Force powers, maybe she could go by Impulse instead.

But, now I'm just rambling.

[cypherfdp]

(Time Cop with a Speed Force-powered motorcycle who was an alternate version of Barry who was killed by the Reverse-Flash in the same arc)

Comics, everybody!

[silverzeo]

How would you react if it a bad twist... like maybe it's Wally....