CT: The Batwoman Situation, and other strips

[espanolbot]

Firstly, the situation going on at the moment following Williams and Blackman both quitting Batwoman...



A guide to the lesser known Batgirls who aren't considered to be part of the Main Canon,



And what I've decided to do in regards to wondering if Cass and Steph will ever appear in the New 52,

Comments

[squirle]

The only slightly sane reason I can think of for DC not wanting Batwoman to get married is that they don't want to seem like copycats after Marvel got a load of publicity for the marriage of Northstar.

Slightly sane, still very dumb ;)

[jlbarnett]

maybe they plan on Renee Montoya coming back and they're going to do a love triangle

[mrstatham]

With characters like Kate and Mags being lesbian characters, it was going to be inevitable once the editorial meddling got revealed, ESPECIALLY when DC have been attempting to portray themselves as progressive, having introduced a trans character and allowing Kate and Maggie to be together to begin with. This was inevitable, because it looks hypocritical, almost.

[jaybee3]

I would really prefer Cass and Steph not appear again till a regime change at DC. I dread what would be done to them if they did appear *hint*cannon fodder*hint*.

I think the Batwoman thing has mostly to do with DC's "issues" with marriage whatever they are which at this point are 100% times worse than even Marvel (hey Sue and Reed and Jessica and Luke are still hitched right?).

And I think Gail objected to Charlie being made Batgirl because she didn't think a Bat-Family hero in Gotham should be someone with actual super-powers. That this fact didn't also occur to Didio or anyone else at Editorial is mind-boggling (although as history shows, whoever they would have made Batgirl would have just been a stopgap since Didio has wanted to bring back Babs as Batgirl for YEARS).

[q99]

-
I would really prefer Cass and Steph not appear again till a regime change at DC. I dread what would be done to them if they did appear *hint*cannon fodder*hint*.-

Yea, DC is *not good*, and a lot of characters get treated like crap. It can be good again, but not now.

[mrstatham]

Actually, Blackman and JHW3 have explicitly stated that whilst they were frustrated about not being able to have Kate and Mags get married, they were at least satisfied that they had successfully fought their corner to maintain the relationship in the New52 anyway, and also stated that the fact it was a gay marriage had absolutely nothing to do with DC refusing it. So it was literally just the fact it was two characters getting married. Which is just as pathetic.

So JHW3 confirmed via twitter it had nothing to do with the idea of gay marriage. He and Blackman are literally just off the book because DC told them no with their revisions to Killer Croc's origin (as if anyone would actually object to them modifying Waylon), made them alter the end of their current story, and kept on insisting on eleventh hour revisions - which, for an artist like JHW3 who takes lots of time? Not good. So.. Yeah. I know that homophobic air is going to linger over this for a while, but when one of the creators says it has nothing to do with the character's sexuality and is more down to other stuff, I'm inclined to believe him.

[espanolbot]

One could argue that, of course they'd say that, they'd want to work for DC again in the near future. Unlike, say, Rob Liefeld, who'd stomp out the door yelling at the top of his lungs.

[icon_uk]

Bette Kane appeared as Bat-Girl (note the hypher, it was always there) through the 1970's as a member of Titan's West. Not terribly prevalent I grant you, and she eventially retired to pursue her sports career, but still active if emergencies arose. She and Babs even met in an old Batman Family issue.

She wasn't actually retconned into having always been Flamebird until 1988 in the Secret Origins Annual.

And in fairness, she wasn't retconned in as Kate's niece (That had always been the Batwoman and Batgirl relationship; aunt and neice), Kate was retconned in as her aunt, since Flamebird kept her heroic career before Kate was introduced.

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

I think she was still Betty Kane when she was in Teen Titans.

I haven't read enough late 70s Teen Titans to know if DC ever expanded on it, but one of the issues that I've read hinted at her and Duela having a rivalry over Dick.

[crabby_lioness]

I read an interesting data point today. In 1968 85% of young adults were married and lived with their spouses. Today only 25% of of young adults are married and live with their spouses. As detestable as I find DC's anti-marriage policy, that data point probably has something to do with it.

[janegray]

0% of young adults are superheroes, but we still enjoy reading about them. I'm not married and I don't want to be, but breaking up my OTPs pisses me off.

[jlbarnett]

so they're foolish enough to think people only read what they experience.

They must think there's a lot of billionaires,space traveler and magical beings in the world

[arilou_skiff]

The 60's was the high point of marriage as an institution IIRC; at no time before or after has such a large % of the population been married.

[his_spiffynesss]

Just from what JH Williams had said, I kind of wonder what the hell Jim Lee is doing in his EIC office all day? They only read the scripts after the latest issue is at the printers?

[chrisdv]

Brooding.

Because it helps with the Darker & Edgier direction DC are taking.

[stolisomancer]

[zechs80]

That pic never gets old.

[kurenai_tenka]

This is actually the first I've heard of all the stuff going on with Batwoman, how sad. :(

[his_spiffynesss]

I'm wondering if the problem is the fact DC has three people essentially playing the role of Editor in Chief. Bob Harras holds the title, and is notoriously bad at it (Maximum Cloneage Anyone?) Jim Lee and Dan Didio are co-Publishers, and they probably have final say on what happens. Probably everyone is working on a different schedule, and nobody actually sits down all at once to discuss this properly.

So a writer sends in a script for approval, Bob says it needs more clones! Writer adds more clones, and then Jim thinks the clones need a more compelling backstory and suggests costume designs. Dan may not like any of this, and hands the job to somebody else, and the merry go round starts all over.

Needs more clones!

[raspberryrain]

See, all they need to do is have Kate marry Maggie's clone!

[big_daddy_d]

You know these days I feel insulted in what I read in some DC and Marvel comics. Not only just the comics but what some of the creators come out and say in public or how they dance around particular questions. Not because of something particularly blatant like treatment of a minority character and whatnot but in the ideal of the so-called target audience or rather, some of the head honchos' ideal of the kind of people the target audience is. Hell same as with some of the new shows... Spectacular Spider-Man, Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes, Wolverine and the X-Men...Young Justice... cancelled and replaced with shows that seems to focus on humor and juvenile behavior and toilet and bodily fluid jokes.... to me that is saying something about the intelligence of the target audience and... seriously I honestly just feel insulted. I really do. To me it's like they're saying we're a bunch of immature, single, horny, stupid losers who will continue giving them a portion of our paychecks. I honestly think that, that is what they think of us fans these days and I am just...so insulted. I can't be the only one who feels this way.

[superboyprime]

Food for thought:

http://filmsfoodandfandom.tumblr.com/post/60362423447/dc-fans-get-mad-do-nothing

[big_daddy_d]

I gotta be honest..starting a revolution for comics. Would the world take that seriously? A situation like that is a loaded gun.

[raspberryrain]

Does DC have any married heroes left other than Animal Man? They may be on an anti-wedding kick.

Or someone remembered that Maggie started out as a Superman supporting character and that Kate started out as the Question's girlfriend, and they decided pairing them off sinned in some way against nostalgia and the "iconic" versions of the characters.

Or, you know, they're afraid of the "Million Moms" or Bill O'Reilly or whoever.

Too many possible reasons!

Anyway, your art is getting so much better!

[espanolbot]

Actually Animal Man and his wife had broken up, last I heard, following the death of their son. Aquaman and his wife Mera are still together though, I think.

And thank you! :)

[goodbyebird]

*sigh* god damn it, DC.

[endis_ni]

Wow, DC's doing an excellent job pissing off their creative teams post reboot, though I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious to see what J.H. Williams III will be up to next.

Then again, DC's search for new talent is looking a bit dubious as well . Hey kids, you too can draw a naked woman attempting suicide!

[q99]

It was impressive of them to do something that managed to make me lose *more* respect the day after they canned a gay marriage and lost a top-quality crew.

[benuben]

Okay, I'm really starting to hate those fat loser strawman caricatures in webcomics. It's stupid, counterproductive and only makes the author look like an asshole.

Mod Note

[salinea]

Not that I disagree with the point, but don't go around insulting community members.