CAPTAIN AMERICA #3: Steve's childhood and other stuff

[starwolf_oakley]

CAPTAIN AMERICA: STRANDED IN DIMENSION Z was a very sci-fi pulp way to start the most recent Captain America series. And throughout the series are various flashbacks to Steve's 1920s-30s childhood in the Lower East Side, complete with the whole "Steve's father was an alcoholic" that they first revealed in an Iron Man story, IIRC.
Anyway, here's some more about Steve's childhood.





Nothing against John Romita Jr., but children's necks aren't this thin, even during the Great Depression.



Ian. That name is important in the "Dimension Z" storyline.

Arnie Roth appeared in CAPTAIN AMERICA #270 1982-84 during the DeMatties/Zeck run as a friend of Steve Rogers childhood that reappeared in his life.



Arnie didn't look like this in the flashbacks. In fact, the original flashbacks when he was introduced, Arnie was the one who protected Steve from bullies.

Also, the "Nancy" comment is a little odd. Yes, Arnie was gay, even though the word wasn't used, but the Red Skull called him a "fop." I doubt those kids really think Arnie is gay (or whatever word they used in the 1930s, if anything).



While brave, it looks like Steve took a swing, missed, and the kid fell over Arnie by accident.



"Nancy." Sheesh.




Here's a page from http://trelkez.tumblr.com/post/28072827300/starring-captain-americas-gay-bff-arnie-roth about the aforementioned DeMatteis/Zeck run.




Looks like Arnie was serious about learning how to fight.

Yes, Arnie Roth was amalgamated into Bucky Barnes for the MCU Captain America. Which I understand. These days, it seems standard for superhero movies that friends and love interests know the hero *before* he becomes a superhero.

CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE WINTER SOLIDER had a flashback similar to what I want in the planned DAREDEVIL TV series: Foggy Nelson's family took Matt Murdock in after his father was killed.

Comments

[halloweenjack]

I like JRJR's art here, mostly. If only he'd stop drawing kids as if they were bobbleheads.

[sir_razorback]

My thoughts exactly.

[leoboiko]

Quite smart of that 1920s kid to know about reptilian brains, given that MacLean first formulated the triune brain model in the 60s, and the expression only gained currency (in the sense of "the primitive part of the human brain") even later.

[lieut_kettch]

They're only 20 years from developing Vita-Rays and the Super Soldier Serum. Perhaps our understanding of human anatomy and physiology developed much faster in the MU.

I CAN HAZ NO-PRIZE?

[starwolf_oakley]

Not to get too meta, but an Arnm Zola copy is on Cap's chest during some of this story. Its possible Zola's knowledge is "bleeding" into Cap's flashbacks.

[icon_uk]

Calling someone a "nancy boy" or a "nancy" did mean a gay man (or at least an effeminate one, which was often viewed as being the same thing), back in the day. George Orwell used the term in 1933, so it's probably about the right era.

[espanolbot]

Yeah, it seems more an attempt to write with period appropriate lingo rather than being offensive for the sake of being offensive. Plus the guy using the language is clearly shown to be a bully, a racist and a homophobe, so it's not something the audience are meant to be thinking is the done thing.

[espanolbot]

Seems interesting, along the same lines as the Magneto: Testament and Red Skull: Incarnate, which dealt with historical accounts of the Holocaust and the rise of the Nazis respectively.

Can't really get over the art style though, the heads are too huge and I recognise some of the character designs from his work in Kick-Ass. Personally would have gone with Darwyn Cooke or someone, someone who can both draw really well and have things look period appropriate.

In regards to the language used: I think that it was an attempt to look period appropriate, and considering the one using it is a racist, homophobic thug it clearly isn't meant to be something the audience is meant to be agreeing with. Now if Steve were using that kind of language, a la Ultimate Captain America, I'd object more to it.

Not sure what characters they could do a series like this about next, considering their are relatively few Marvel characters canonically still from an older time period (Wolverine doesn't count, as although there are plenty of stories with him based in the past, they are mostly fantastical due to the nature of the protagonist). Black Widow's like in the USSR before joining the KGB, maybe?

[icon_uk]

If in doubt, go for the immortals... Hercules in the 20's or 30's could be a hoot, or Thor visiting Victorian London! :)

[michaelhealy]

I'd love to see a Hercules prohibition story.

[icon_uk]

Perfect! :)

[espanolbot]

Apparently Blade was born in London during the 1920s (I knew about the London bit, didn't know about the 20s thing), which makes a degree of sense considering how his favourite type of music was jazz, which he picked up from a group of African-American jazz musicians that he hung out with when he was younger (also the explanation why he uses American slang, beyond him living mainly in the US for most of the last near century), and there WERE a lot of jazz clubs that opened up around Soho around the time he'd have been a teenager.

A story of a young British African-Carribbean man in early 20th century England is something that I don't think has been covered that much, beyond that bloke (again, a jazz musician I think he was) that showed up in Downton Abbey last season. Him being a vampire hunter on top of that is just gravy.

[silverhammerman]

I've only read Magneto: Testament, but that story didn't really have any superhero/villain stuff in it, and I'm assuming the same goes for the Red Skull, so the problem with Blade I think is that his life is fantastic from the start. He's a half vampire dealing with half vampire stuff from birth pretty much, so the story can't do the whole historical period as an average person would have experienced it.

[espanolbot]

Yeah, the Red Skull story didn't have any supernatural stuff in it, it itself being based off of elements of the various serial killers that were aboard in Germany in the 1930s, for example.

Though the thing with Blade is that they could take the route that Testament alluded to, in that there are hints and glimpses of supernatural stuff (Max, Eric's real name, is adept at handling metal and may have used his powers to avoid getting shot along with most of his family, for example).

Similiarly, they could alude to vampires and such in Blade's story, but considering he was born in 1929 and didn't meet his jazz musician/vampire hunting mentor until he was a teenager, they still leaves most of the 1930s of him living in the middle of the West End of London (the theatre district mostly, with a lot of Italian and French immigrants back in the day, but has since home to entertainment of all kinds, from cinemas to theatres to the Red Light District). He wasn't exactly insulated from this, he grew up in a brothel and apparently knew how to play the trumpet well enough that he did it professionally that one time he killed all vampires everywhere (seriously).

There is still potential to cover the Blitz and what not from another perspective, as up until that point most British heroes in the Marvel Universe seem to be posh people (Union Jack and his family, for example). They could leave the vampires to the edges of the story, maybe introducing the jazz/vampire slaying troupe that he joins after the Americans come to the UK during WW2 and bring more demand for music with them, maybe.

[donnblake]

Xavier's still supposed to be more or less Magneto's contemporary, right? I'd read a series that was Xavier's early life (father's experiments and accident, his mother's remarriage, dealing with Cain and the possibly abusive stepfather, going off to the Korean war with Cain...

[espanolbot]

I think that they're considered to be contemporaries, and considering they've been deaged numerous times over the years it's possible that Xavier is/was the same age... though I'm not really sure if it's picked up as much as Eric's backstory.

A Before Watchmen style story of Cold War Era versions of the characters might be fun to see, with the characters debuting the times they did in the comics. So making Tony still trying to sell his tech to the US army to help their war against communism in South East Asia, the amount of Soviet supervillains in the early Hulk stories etc. etc.

It would be interesting if they actually showed all the characters considered to be supervillains because they happened to be on the wrong side of the Cold War as superheroes, but with the American superheroes as the bad guys for once.

[silverhammerman]

Black Widow seems like a good candidate based on her popularity in the movies, but those have avoided the long-lived aspect of her character for simplicity's sake. Marvel might not want to confuse the characters new fanbase by having an ageless comic version and a purely human movie version.

[donnblake]

Well it worked all right for the John Carter of Mars movie!

Oh, wait, nevermind. :(

[venatosapiens]

Hey, some of us really liked that movie.

[donnblake]

I know! I'm one of them! But despite successfully toning down some of the weirder elements in the books (John Carter is an immortal demigod of war, but this will never be expanded on, or really mentioned again) and actually bothering to provide an explanation for why he travels between Earth and Mars, it didn't do very well.

[practicalcat]

I hope this isn't in-continuity. The idea of Steve Rogers, at any age, dismissing an entire half of the human race as mystifying "alien" beings makes me want to punch something.