Avengers #29

[kojiro]

Comments

[beoweasel]

Oh boy, it's Civil War Part Two.

[crinos]

Actually its more like Identity Crisis part two, only replace "rape and bad guy lobotomy" with "Destroying parallel realities".

Also, really Tony? You had to have seen this coming? You MINDWIPED STEVE so he wouldn't get in the way of you and the rest of the Illuminati being "Hard men making hard choices". (BTW, really coming to despise Hard men making Hard choices). How else could this have possibly ended for you besides "Steve remembers what happened and comes to push your shit in."?

[joetuss]

Original

[superfangirl1]

I hope captain Steve show Tony the red white and blue special knuckle sandwich special with a side of ass kicking.

[zabilac]

So, what? It's Iron Man vs Avengers now?

[silicondream]

TONY STARK AND SCOTT SUMMERS AS MISUNDERSTOOD HARD MEN MAKING HARD CHOICES, ON THE RUN TOGETHER FROM THE LAW and then they kiss. Arc-reactor-powered ruby-quartz codpiece ho!

[spacebetween]

Didn't a descent of Tony's appear not so long ago and say something about in his near future he was pretty much going to be alienated and hated by almost everyone?

[kevinroc]

Tony had to mindwipe himself after Civil War/World War Hulk for Steve and Bruce to even return his calls. I can't wait to see what crazy explanation they come up with for Steve and Tony ever working together after this.

[burkeonthesly]

Mindwipe the readers?

[deepspaceartist]

What's that? The greatest minds in the Marvel U are trying to solve a problem that threatens all realities ever? And they are willing to discuss the possibility of detsoying other Earths to save their own long enough to do it? And they kicked Steve out and mindwiped because he would rather commit violence upon them rather than even talk about doing something outside his morals? Clearly the solution is to beat them up! That'll make evrything better!

I miss when Cap was an adult rather than a child who gets violent whenever anybody doesn`t regard him as the highest moral authority.

[shadowpsykie]

That would hold more ground if said group hadn't deeply victimized him. It's been a while, I but I seem to recall Steve wanting to take more time to work out other scenarios, and call in more help, but they were like "no decisions mossy be made NOW. "

[drtechnobabel]

To be fair, the whole reason the Illuminati put him on the team in the first place was for exactly that reason: they considered him an expert on moral authority, and his one job was to make sure they didn't start sliding down a slippery slope into villainy. And of course, the second Steve actually starts doing just that (which before the mindwipe, hadn't exactly escalated to a violent conflict yet), they immediately mindwipe him and pretend the whole thing never happened. It would be one thing if they just kicked him out, but as someone else had mentioned back when it first happened, the fact that they wiped his memory about it as well showed that on some level, they knew that what they were planning on doing was wrong, and wanted to avoid taking responsibility for it.

Yes, Steve was being extremely stubborn about not destroying the other worlds, but honestly, he made a really good point way back when he was first trying to convince them not to do it (paraphrased for efficiency): If they considered destroying other planets a valid option, even as a last resort, there is a good chance that they would eventually compromise their morals and do it instead of trying everything in their power to find another way, just because it would be easier.

[shadowpsykie]

Can some body post the Banner reaction to this? Because of ANYONE deserves to be pissed it's him. Watching him and Steve work together might be interesting

[flint_marko]

Banner joined the illuminati.

[doodleboy]

Good issue, although another damn event.

Nice build-up before the big confrontation, like Thor's line "feuds between brothers tend to run hot". Like how the plot point from way back was brought forward to the present. Hated the recap pages, but I think they were a necessary evil.

[obsidianwolf]

You know this just brings home what I hate about these Heroes face the tough choices type of plots. Marvel will never let the Illuminati destroy a populated world that would tarnish them far to much so while writers can play with them being willing to do what it takes they'll never have to.

If a populated world is ever on the chopping block then someone else will do it in. (My guess would be Doom will step forward and do it.)

[shadowpsykie]

but if they DID i could totally see Jean Grey and the Phoenix come back saying "OH NOW It's okay for you to destroy a universe! I only destroyed a solar system occupied by sentient brocolli!"

[starwolf_oakley]

Wait... I thought this was a "This is the ONLY thing we can do" situation not "This is the EASIEST thing we can do." Either the Illuminati destroy a world or their world dies. Was I misreading everything?

I agree with deepspaceartist that Steve tends to get violent if people don't say he is right. It happened in CIVIL WAR and A VS X.

[donnblake]

We saw in a recent issue that the Not!Supreme Squadron (which was also the Not!Justice League) had ruled out the possibility of destroying other worlds to save their own, and had instead developed various techniques to shift the worlds safely past each other.

[spacebetween]

Ummm how did Capt's moral code break first Tony?

[icon_uk]

Because he had one to break?

[freezer]

Tony, hon? You remember the last time you tried to throw down on a pissed-off Thor? Didn't go so well. Now you're trying it again with a pissed-off Store-Brand!Superman Hyperion and an even more pissed-off Cap with him?

For a genius, Tony doesn't learn from his mistakes very well, does he?

[icon_uk]

He's intelligent, no ever said he was wise.

[big_daddy_d]

Love how some actually defend the mind wipe where no matter how you slice it.. the shit was 100% WRONG! It was wrong when the Justice League did it to Batman, it's wrong now. Did I say it's wrong? It's totally wrong. Please tell me how it's the right thing. I would love to hear that explanation.

[crimsonmoonmist]

Hear, hear!

[shadur]

Oh for fuck's sake, here we go again...

[wizardru]

Oh, FFS. So now Hickman's Shit Sandwich is finally complete; cheap rehashes of previous events leading to the classic Marvel 'heroes fight heroes' trope.

You know, in the 60s and 70s, heroes fought often...but due to mutual suspicion, misunderstandings or odd circumstances. They usually fought and realized their mistakes, tried to avoid hurting each other and departed quickly or realized they were fighting the wrong guy and turned on the villains behind it all.

Now? Now Marvel rarely even NEEDS villains, it appears, since all that ever seems to happen in the heroes fight themselves over and over AND OVER AND OVER. But comics won't let them stay actually totally mad at each other, so it's just flailing. I GET IT. You want to write morally difficult situations and throw your characters into them. You want them to come into conflict and the only way you see to do that is to present ridiculous, dramatic extremes for them. I get it. But it's getting so TIRED.

And why is it that no villains are involved in this in ANY WAY? Apparently this galactic spanning threat the will destroy everything is coming, but no one but the illuminati are even aware of it? I haven't followed exactly, but how do guys like The Master of the World, Dr. Doom, Kang and a host of others just not notice any of this?

[flint_marko]

Doom knows something is going on, and he confronted Reed about it but Reed told him off.

[starwolf_oakley]

Brainwashing and mind-wiping really bugs me, because it always is revealed and then there's recriminations and lack of trust.

The two examples that aren't that popular are Hope brainwashing the 5 Lights to follow her and Star-Lord having Mantis brainwash the Guardians of the Galaxy to stay together after first forming.

[tugrul]

Funny I never questioned Star-Lord brainwashing the GotG to stay together. Was it brainwashing or suggesting?