New Avengers #18: "Into the Breach"

[superboyprime]

Comments

[icon_uk]

"It is impossible to place yourself, or be placed, above man and not act as a god."

Really? Queen Elizabeth II WILL be intrigued, the most she gets to be is "Defender of the Faith"

I suppose it's interesting to see that Wakanda's isolation has been kept in place by a long line of asshole monarchs.

[q99]

I do find it interesting how the good they could've done but didn't is strongly acknowledged here.

[jlbarnett]

maybe Wakanda couldn't have let everyone in and survived and thrived as that would deplete their resources, but they could have sent people OUT and helped others build up their own.

[leoboiko]

Or they could at least share that fancy tech, or use it to fix up crops, weather, disease etc. (as could Richards and others). But if they did that the Marvel world would become full-blown advanced sci-fi, very different from our own; and that would be bad for what Marvel's trying to do, so the very structure of the Universe prevents this kind of significant change from happening.

These guys and gals are basically locked into a nightmare reality or purgatory where invisible, all-powerful gods (the Editorial Board) doom them to endless battles (we must have conflict) but never permanent victories, never (lasting) peace, and never (actual) death.

[terrykun]

"We cannot share the cure for cancer with the world, for the white man will only make it into a weap-- uhh... or.... something not racist...." - Wakanda
"Thanks a lot, guys." - Mar-Vell

That meme actually kind of got turned on its ear after Norman Osborn /DID/ turn a cure for cancer into a weapon... Granted, it was specifically an anti-Deadpool weapon, but still.

[bewareofgeek]

So, basically, this entire arc is Hickman saying to DC "Please hire me to write Justice League"? I guess he grew tired of writing "Please hire me to write Legion".

As for the "All of the former Black Panthers were assholes" bit... I prefer what Priest did. Then again, when it regards T'Challa, that's pretty much a given.

[terrykun]

T'chaka actually seems at least more sympathetic to his son's position. I can give this a nod in general because I imagine being dead for multiple generations (like the other kings) does kind of numb you to the fleeting mortal worldview. :\

[mrosa]

You know what especially bothers me about modern comic book art, besides no motion lines, the static action, the photo-tracing, the general pin up aspect of everything, and the ugly colours? The careless waste of space.

We have, on page 2, a huge panel running the whole width of the page just to show a guy asking, "So?" Ahem, couldn't a close-up of his face been drawn in one third of the size that panel consumed? Look at that panel. That's not Watchmen, that's not one of Gibbon's busy backgrounds; the guy is just floating in a seamless pink background. Do we really need a full shot of the seamless pink background? What does that contribute to the story? Couldn't they have used that space for actual story?

Then on page 3 we have another huge horizontal panel showing Black Panther just standing there with a sour face as if he had just eaten a lemon, followed by a panel the same size that only says, "I was a good king." These two panels could have been drawn in the same tier, using only two thirds of the space of it without any loss, without altering anything at all in the flow or the understanding of the story.

This is just laziness, carelessness, pointless decompression and I'm sure also storytelling incompetence. But more importantly, it's perpetuated on the certainty that readers won't give a shit because they're so used to it they no longer see anything wrong with it. And then everyone can pat himself on the back about how much better comics are nowadays, how they've evolved, when they're just crude artifacts made willy-nilly.

[wizardru]

I don't agree with everything, but I think you make some valid points. This is the logical result of deconstruction. So little actually happens in these pages: yes, the conversation is probably the most interesting thing that's happened in this title in a bit (in that it actually seemed to mean something and seemed in character), but this layout is just trying for cinematic to the exclusion of layout.

One thing the "Rachel and Miles X-Plain the X-Men" podcast really brings home to me is how much story USED to be packed in a single comic issue compared to today. I think there are advantages to both approaches, but deconstruction has really taken over these days, to the virtual exclusion of the older style.

[thatnickguy]

Oh my god, just get to the flipping story, all ready! That's two issues now that have ended with "Look! Look! They're gonna meet!"

There's decompressed storytelling and then there's THIS.

[nyadnar17]

I for one really love the fact that Wakanda's history of self-serving dickory from a position of moral superiority is finally being acknowledged.


Also anyone who thinks this story is going to end with "This JLA" looking like the true heroes hasn't been paying attention. The whole point of this story is about dealing with "impossible" choices and the mental distress that choosing between conflicting "core values" causes people. The JLA don't do that(usually). They either avoid thorny morality issues altogether, cheat to change the problem, or the problem get resolved by villains/antiheroes who step up to get the job done. "This JLA" doesn't have that luxury. I think being faced with an "impossible" choice is going to destroy their team.

The only question in my mind is whether "Superman" or "Batman" is going to be the one to go nuts/HBSOD

[drtechnobabel]

Maybe, but you forget that they DO have villains/antiheroes who are stepping in to get the job done: the Illuminati. Sure, it probably won't end the way they want, but it's still happening.

Although if one of them is going to snap, I really hope it's 'Batman'. Partly because it'd make more sense, and partly because I am sick and tired of seeing Batman be the moral heart of the Justice League while Superman and everyone else turns evil.

[shadowpsykie]

if this doesn't end with the Illuminati becoming "better" then i am through.... (despite the fact i love bruce in this...)

[starwolf_oakley]

Well, at least the past Wakandan Kings aren't going "Doing these immoral acts for the greater good makes you more moral than those who won't." Stuff like that really bugs me in superhero comics. (Oh hi, Identity Crisis.)

The third season finale of SHERLOCK was similar, although Sherlock did not see himself as more moral than John or Mycroft. "I'm not a hero. I'm a high-functioning sociopath."

[skemono]

I'm confused why they're fighting. Hasn't the JLExpy shown they can prevent the destruction of both planets during an incursion? So what's at stake? (Or am I missing things and they were blowing up the other planets?)

[nyadnar17]

The only know way to prevent the destruction of both planets during an incursion is to use your universe's Infinity Gems to reverse the incursion. Using the Gems in that way destroys them after one use. The JLA and the Illuminati have both already used their Gems.

[drtechnobabel]

But haven't the JLExpy (nice name, by the way) said in the past that they've stopped incursions multiple times without resorting to blowing up the other worlds? I mean, that was the whole point of Son God's speech in their introduction, right? So they have to have some other method besides using the Infinity Gems, otherwise that wouldn't be possible for the reason you stated.

[superboyprime]

The idea is that each method they used was one-time, not reproducible.

[yvonmukluk]

I'm pretty sure the Not!JLA stated they've used several other methods.

[burkeonthesly]

I'm having the same problem. Seriously, this shouldn't be starting with charging into a fight, it should start with, "hey, we were watching on the space-o-vision that you guys managed to not-wreck a bunch of Earths. We'd like to not-wreck ours, too. You've got some big brains, we've got some big brains, let's put 'em together without wasting most of our time on the obligatory fight, huh?"

I mean, the writers can't even claim that they're fulfilling some expectation comic readers have of at least one action scene in every issue, because they've been teasing the same damn scene for the last two.

[stubbleupdate]

You haven't read this series, have you?

[drtechnobabel]

Oh hey, Doctor Strange got possessed by a demon to save the world from a threat too great for him to stop. Again. When will he remember that it NEVER ends well for him? Ah well, at least the Illuminati is admitting (indirectly, at least) that they aren't heroes anymore.

I will admit though, I do like that at least SOMEONE in the Illuminati is having second thoughts about what they plan to do. Though if Black Panther does think that this is a line he shouldn't cross, it's strange that he hasn't spoken up before now. You know, like when he backstabbed Steve for pretty much saying the same thing.

Also, why are the JLExpies standing on Apocalypse's head? Is there world supposed to be like 'Age of Apocalypse' or something?

[aperturedreams]

They explain why Apocalypse was involved in an earlier issue that covers their backstory.

[big_daddy_d]

I legit enjoyed T'Challa's exchange with the past rulers, but honestly... I could appreciate the moral difficulty in place here but if this results in the Illuminati destroying the Marvel JLA world. For one I'm going to have a huge problem with that, but when this Incursion bullshit is FINALLY over..seriously it's been going on for so long... they cannot be allowed to get away with it. This time none of that "I was possessed" bullshit to fall back on either. Why can't they just ask them what their secret is? How they managed to beat the odds?

Also it really surprised me how the... Marvel's DC heroes are being portrayed as better than actual Marvel heroes. I would've expected them to be portrayed as assholes or villains.