Finally saw X-MEN: DOFP

[starwolf_oakley]

I finally saw X-MEN:: DAYS OF FUTURE PAST. I thought it was amazing all around, although it was a little vague about Past-Magneto's plans. Dropping a baseball stadium around the White House is somehow *good* for mutants? And there was the standard character amalgamation: Blink can create Illyana's teleportation discs and Sunspot is the Human Torch and Magma.
But was I the only one who though the Future Sentinels resembled the Alan Moore/Alan Davis creation...





http://www.comicvine.com/the-fury/4005-14489/

...The Fury? It is a cybernetic being created to kill all superhumans and has the power to do so. There have been two. One created by Mad Jim Jaspers that kill all the superhumans on its Earth and came to this one. And a slightly weaker one created by Jamie Braddock to "test" the X-Men in UNCANNY X-MEN #444. The Fury can counter any superpower with one of its own, as the Future Sentinels did. The X-Men were only able to defeat the Fury in UNCANNY #447 by creating a mini-singularity to trap it, which didn't destroy the rest of the Earth for reasons.

X-MEN: DAYS OF FUTURE PAST was awesome, if a bit confusing.

Comments

[cyberghostface]

I liked DOFP but I preferred First Class.

[donnblake]

I believe Magneto's plans were along the lines of "Kill the president on national TV with a rewired army of sentinels," (see also, Ultimate X-men) "Kill everyone who comes to kill me immediately afterwards. Take over the country/world, rule it as a mutant paradise." Possibly he was expecting other mutants to rally to his cause after that.

[halloweenjack]

I think that it was more along the lines of "Fuck with us at ouryour peril." It wasn't super-clear, but the government either was involved in the murder of and experimentation on mutants by Trask and Stryker, or tacitly allowing it to see what Trask would make of it. (The scene where the mutant unit in Vietnam was about to be taken en masse by Stryker indicates that it might have been a little of both.) Considering Erik's past with Shaw, I can quite imagine that he would react quite badly to that.

[glprime]

How 'bout that Quicksilver bit, though? Best action sequence in an X-film since Nightcrawler fight in the white house.

If I could save time in a bottle/ The first thing that I'd like to do...

[silverhammerman]

I mostly liked DOFP while I was watching it, but I found that once I got out of the theater and had a chance to think about it the whole thing came apart for me.

It basically ditches all the cool ideas that First Class brought in, the spy aesthetic, the 60's setting, the focus on building a team, even killing off virtually all of the First Class original characters off-screen, in favor of doing what is very much another movie about Bryan Singer's vision for the X-Men, with all the relevant problems that brings.

I mean, let's be real, the first two X-Men movies have not aged well at all, they're very much bogged down in that awful early-2000's "superheroes, but adult" aesthetic. And DOFP has all those same problems without the benefit of nostalgia or being the only place to see superheros in the theater.

The costumes are mostly awful, the white dude centrism is looking increasing out of place and problematic, not the mention that the franchise's fixation on Wolverine is beyond tiresome at this point. And while Mystique might be the one setting the plot in motion, her role is still predicated on the idea that the film's only female character with any substantial role is just being too darned irrational to listen to all the oh-so-smart men and not fuck everything up.

For me, best case scenario, Singer gets booted from X-Men Apocalypse (which is looking increasingly likely due to his recent sex scandal, guilty or not) and Fox begs Matthew Vaughn on bended knee to return to the franchise.

That said, Quicksilver was way cooler than he had any right to be, probably the highlight of the film for me.

[starwolf_oakley]

I mean, let's be real, the first two X-Men movies have not aged well at all, they're very much bogged down in that awful early-2000's "superheroes, but adult" aesthetic.

First time I saw X-MEN in 2000, I thought it looked like an above-average TV pilot.

The focus on Wolverine *seems* to be because FOX sees Hugh Jackman/Wolverine as the biggest audience draw.

[glprime]

Agreed, Quicksilver absolutely killed it, his bits came outta left field and stole the show. I'm actually wondering if Whedon makes half as good use of the character in Age of Ultron.

(And hilariously, whereas most might complain about too many characters being introduced in these films, I think QS worked b/c of Singer keeping to the "less is more" adage; he used him where he was needed, then conveniently had the plot say, 'this is too dangerous for you kid, sit this one out... and also you'd wrap everything up inside of three minutes of actual time.')

[bruinsfan]

I'm not getting my hopes up. Regardless of how well-written or directed the part may be, I haven't seen Aaron Taylor-Johnson put in a more than mediocre performance (and his most recent one fell short of mediocre). Evan Peters has a lot more talent and range IMHO, and the "Time in a Bottle" scene effectively destroys any chance of CGI or a Whedon set piece compensating.

[halloweenjack]

Well, it's obviously not your preferred vision of X-Men, but I'm a bit baffled at your seeming belief that the movie franchise is unduly fixated on Wolverine, when he's been the breakout star of the bunch in the comics for some three decades or so now. And Singer's "scandal" doesn't seem to have legs; there are a lot of really problematic things about the case, and one of his co-defendants has already had the case against him thrown out.

[silverhammerman]

I haven't kept up on the Singer stuff, I'd imagine it's all a matter of publicity on the business end. If this whole thing fades away in the next few months I expect Singer will direct, if not, the studio might sever its ties with him, whether the case is thrown out or not.

As for Wolverine it depends on how we're judging a character's "worthiness" for attention. Financially, Wolverine makes money, the studio wants to make money, simple as that. The studio is entitled to try to make money how they see fit.

Artistically? It's all subjective. Personally though, yeah I think the attention was undue. The first three X-films focus on Wolverine and his manpain claptrap at the expense of far more interesting characters and stories. It took four movies to get any meaningful examination of the Xavier/Magneto relationship, and DOFP summed up the Dark Phoenix Saga as just another example of how hard Wolverine's life is. It makes sense to put him in the movies, but by the third film they were beating a dead horse, they'd explored his backstory and they should have moved on to telling other stories with centered on other characters.

[beyondthefringe]

After watching DOFP, my first thought was basically, "So a bunch of dudes have to band together despite their differences, to save a woman from her mistakes?"

That's one way in which either A) going with the original story where Kitty Pryde goes back in time or B) recruiting just about any female character in the past, would have at least alleviated the dubious gender inequality going on.

Yes, I know female characters played more of a role in the future, but they were mainly just action support pieces or plot devices. The true meat of the plot was in the '70s.

Emma, dead? Moira, unavailable? Angel, dead? Scarlet Witch or Polaris, too young to be any help?

Okay, so female X-Men who can be useful are... limited by what the film franchise has already established. But what about Sway? Female, minority, and time control. Moonstar: female, minority, useful psychic-based abilities which could still have a visible screen representation. Sage: canonically one of Xavier's earliest agents, whatever powers you give her. Karma: female, minority, and her possession abilities would have been extremely useful. Rachel: the one originally introduced in the comics version of DOFP... okay, her origin is problematic until you erase X3.

Looking back at this, I realize that maybe it's harder to find appropriate characters than I thought. But if you want to introduce a female character with a long lifespan, who would get through to Mystique and maybe be usefl in freeing Magneto from prison... why not Destiny? Boom. There you go.

[ablackraptor]

Personally, I'm still in the camp that think they should have had Kitty go back in time. Ignoring the fact that making her the one with mental time travel powers makes no bloody sense, but it would have made for a more diverse cast of the ones actually doing something, it would have given Xavier more reason to want to help by seeing one of his future students, and it would have made for a few nice scenes with Magneto given their shared Jewish backgrounds; given they played up the Holocaust similarities in the opening, it would have made sense.

Of course, there's the whole 'passing the torch' thing, and I get that it wouldn't make sense for a minor character to be the one who does that, but there's no reason she couldn't have gone back WITH Wolverine (hell, it'd make the 'her powers expand to time travel' make more sense if she goes back with them when she does it, since than its possible to explain it away as her 'phasing' through time). Wolverine and Kitty's dynamic has been so underused in the films that they could have showcased it here.

[starwolf_oakley]

Well, maybe the female characters can be saved for the next movie. All wearing stylish 1980s fashions.

Frenzy aka Joanna Cargill (female, minority) would be cool, as she has super strength and durability.

[jetblack927]

I disagree, I felt 'Days' followed in the same footsteps as 'First Class' glossing over '70s highlights, addressing the Kennedy Assassination, the peace conference in Paris ending the Vietnam War, etc..."Apocalypse" is going to take place in the '80 which will be perfect to introduce Dazzler, and unfortunately have Channing Tatum as Gambit. Singer will be on board AND if the Fantastic Four reboot does well, Fox is trying to push a crossover event that will serve as a Fantastic Four Sequel a-la DC's "Batman vs. Superman"

[drtechnobabel]

Actually, I think they nixed the 'FF/X-Men crossover idea'. According to this article (http://tinyurl.com/FFXmenDead), it apparently wouldn't make sense for the FF to exist in the same universe as the X-Men without everyone treating the FF like mutants or vice versa, something which honestly makes a lot of sense.

As an aside, how do I make my text into links? I've never been able to figure it out.

[silverhammerman]

I think exploring that double standard could actually be a cool hook though. Magneto gets offended that the FF get let off easy by the public, the Thing is drawn to the mutants as a fellow outsider, and so on.

[icon_uk]

The Fantastic Four were the result of an accident, but they had been human before that and have always been upfront about how they got their powers.

Mutants, on the other hand, are sneaky, untrustworthy bastards because they've never REALLY been human, but can pretend to be.

The code for creating links is

<a href="the weblink address">Whatever text you want to use as the link</a>

[silverhammerman]

It just seems like they're jumping forward a bit too fast, the setting isn't being explored as well as it could be. After First Class I'd hoped they'd keep the series based in the 60's, it's the perfect setting for a Civil Rights metaphor, would help differentiate it from the competition, and it offered the chance for an interesting dynamic with the Fantastic Four; the FF could embody everything good and optimistic about the 60's, while the X-Men would be the underbelly of prejudice and injustice.

It just feels to me like the reason they're jumping over so much time is to distance themselves from First Class and get back to Bryan Singer's vision, which as I've noted, is pretty much the exact opposite of what I want to see.

I wouldn't hold my breath for Dazzler though, if they were going to do a First Class-style ragtag team of C-listers she might have a chance at showing up, but the buzz I've heard is that we'll just be getting teenage versions of Bryan Singer's butchering of Cyclops and Jean Grey.

[icon_uk]

It's been established that Chris Claremont wanted to introduce more of Alan Moore's "Captain Britain" characters into the X-Men titles, as seen when the 616 version of "Mad Jim" Jaspers makes a brief appearance at a Hellfire Club function (and was seen to briefly, if unknowningly, use his powers to reshape reality so he was drinking red wine instead of the white wine which was poured for him). Saturnyne and the Technet (Members of the Special Executive that Alan davis created rather than Alan Moore IIRC) also popped up.

He definitely wanted to use the Fury, but due to, IIRC, a disagreement between Marvel and Moore as to who owned what characters, the Fury couldn't be used, and so at the point where it would have been introduced the future Sentinel Nimrod was introduced instead.

Given how Claremont used the Fury when he did finally get permission to use it, when Alan Davis was drawing the title, it's perhaps a good thing that he DIDN'T get to use it earlier because it was so watered down as to be worthless.

[starwolf_oakley]

It's through the Claremont/Davis EXCALIBUR run that Alan Moore's "616" designation for the mainstream Marvel Universe gained popularity, at least among fans. Lots of Moore's stuff showed up in EXCALIBUR.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

"Given how Claremont used the Fury when he did finally get permission to use it, when Alan Davis was drawing the title, it's perhaps a good thing that he DIDN'T get to use it earlier because it was so watered down as to be worthless."

Agreed. I think Nimrod is a far better character for what Claremont wanted/did. And it spared The Fury from being weakened as a character/concept.

These days, The Fury is so watered down, he gets taken down by Hawkeye and Fury Jr.

[halloweenjack]

It's been established that Chris Claremont wanted to introduce more of Alan Moore's "Captain Britain" characters into the X-Men titles, as seen when the 616 version of "Mad Jim" Jaspers makes a brief appearance at a Hellfire Club function (and was seen to briefly, if unknowningly, use his powers to reshape reality so he was drinking red wine instead of the white wine which was poured for him).

That was done in Captain Britain by Moore. (Henry Gyrich also makes an appearance, as well as Sebastian Shaw; the panel is here, although you have to scroll down a bit. (not the business with the wine, although I clearly remember that being in Captain Britain as well, as it was the first time that 616 Jaspers manifested his powers.) Jaspers later showed up at the trial of Magneto (written by Claremont) as the prosecutor, although how he came back from the dead is unknown.

[featheredserpent]

The Fury, as written in Captain Britain, was *terrifying*, even moreso than Nimrod. It took down characters left and right without regard, and was far more unstoppable than the Juggernaut, or any zombie horde. That thing was scarier than Galactus.

It didn't help that, here in Seattle, a kid would occasionally run across graffitti of that thing's face.

[chrisdv]

I liked it at the time, but thinking about the plot just 5 minutes after leaving? The wheels just fell off - like if Sentinels have existed for decades, why did Magneto never use the argument "They built 20 foot tall deathbots for the sole purpose of killing us, Charles."?

On top of that, I was disgusted by the level of violence when they gratuitously killed the future X-Men.

[theflames]

I domt think their death's were gratuitous.

Its canon that Sentinels exterminate dangerous non surrendering mutants. So of course that would be the fate of loosing X-men.

Since they were putting up a fight, a simple ray blast wasn't gonna cut it.