The Wicked + The Divine #1

[arbre_rieur]

"It's really a superhero book leaning on the fancy side, but how else could it be? A lot of people do celebrity and superhero; that's an old trope. But it's almost always cynical, the idea that just because they did a bit of coke they aren't as good as Superman. And it's like, fuck you! David Bowie saved my life." -- Kieron Gillen



















They're attacked by gunmen.

Comments

[nyadnar17]

I was skeptical (see what I did there?) but this looks like a lot of fun.

[tugrul]

I see this is the same artist for the Young Avengers book. A lot of the characters there make the same faces. Now I can never unsee "falls to his knees, cum leaking from crotch".

Geez, why do I have to be so vulgar. :o

[grumman]

...the idea that just because they did a bit of coke they aren't as good as Superman.

If you drink and drive, that makes you an asshole. If you can kill someone just by looking at them, the same rules should apply.

[shadowpsykie]

in her defense, they did try to kill them.

[grumman]

In the case from the comic, yeah, this is clearly a justified homicide - even if you wanted to argue that it couldn't be self-defense due to her being a god (you can see a bullet bending around Amaterasu), there are regular old squishy humans in the room, and stopping them get shot is a valid legal defense for Luci's actions.

In the case from the quote, doing coke does make you less good than Superman. If you have a superhuman capacity to do harm to those around you, you have a responsibility to not use mind-altering substances known for causing paranoid delusions.

[shadowpsykie]

yeah, but once again, as you said, they are gods, what effect WOULD coke have on them? and for how long?

you can see a bullet bending around Amaterasu,
huh... didn't even notice that....

[grumman]

yeah, but once again, as you said, they are gods, what effect WOULD coke have on them? and for how long?

I don't know, but this is one of those cases where the cost of conducting the experiment outweighs the benefit of the resulting knowledge. Either being superhuman makes you immune to drugs, in which case taking cocaine is pointless, or it does not make you immune to drugs, in which case taking cocaine is a very bad idea. Unless you think you're Snowflame, there is no circumstance in which taking cocaine is a /good/ thing.

[theflames]

Well if they're choosing to do the coke, then it must have some affect on them. otherwise they'd just be putting what amounts to dust in their bodies.

[richardak]

Self-defense is actually a misnomer: it applies when you are defending others as well. Of course, there's the problem of whether she could have defended those people without using deadly force; the law generally only permits deadly force as a last resort.

[grumman]

Of course, there's the problem of whether she could have defended those people without using deadly force; the law generally only permits deadly force as a last resort.

I can't imagine that would be a problem. Nobody in their right mind would want to be the guy quoted as saying that mowing down civilians with automatic rifles doesn't justify retaliating with deadly force, doubly so when their counter-argument amounts to "maybe you should have snapped your fingers and made their guns disappear."

[shadur]

Granted, that bit gets a lot of leeway even in normal circumstances because when you're legitimately fighting for your life no one's going to be /terribly/ surprised when you err on the side of overkill.

Bad movies aside, aiming to reliably disable is really damn hard.

[freezer]

I'd like to know what kind of guns they're using that can lay down that much fire, accurately, at that distance, and still be handheld.

Must be the new Smith & Wesson Diabolus Ex models.

[freezer]

Another thing: Is this supposed be set in the UK or US? The judge's wig and robe says "UK", "Your Honor" says "US." (The proper address for a UK judge would be "My Lord/Lady" [Thank you, Law & Order UK]).

Yes, I am the kind of person for whom secondary details can derail an entire story. Why do you ask?

[icon_uk]

No, that was irking me too a little.

[nyadnar17]

I think its set in the UK and Lucifer is American.

[freezer]

Explained in one short sentence. Thank you!

[seisachtheia]

Pretty sure it's in the UK; I don't think it's a goof, because Luci's definitely trying to yank the judge's chain.

[batman]

Not necessarily. "My Lord/Lady" is for the upper levels of the judiciary, but this is just her being committed for trial. You wouldn't get a senior judicial officer just for a committal.

(Also, it's "Your Honour" in Australia too.)

[icon_uk]

A bit of looking around on the assorted wikis and websites suggests that purple robes with the red sash over the left shoulder indicate he's a circuit judge dealing with a criminal case (the colour of the sash is determined by tit being a civil, or criminal, matter), most likely in Crown Court, so he would be referred to as "Your Honour".

You need to be High Court on up to be addressed as "My Lord/Lady"

[freezer]

I stand corrected.

[icon_uk]

The quote Luci ueses is from "This Be the Verse", by Philip Larkin, noted English poet.


They fuck you up, your mum and dad.
They may not mean to, but they do.
They fill you with the faults they had
And add some extra, just for you.

But they were fucked up in their turn
By fools in old-style hats and coats,
Who half the time were soppy-stern
And half at one another’s throats.

Man hands on misery to man.
It deepens like a coastal shelf.
Get out as early as you can,
And don’t have any kids yourself.


Noted, and brilliant, but never exactly a barrel of laughs, our Phil.

[big_daddy_d]

This seems fun

[silverhammerman]

It looks like this has on of the main quirks that I found off-putting in Gillen & McKelvie's Young Avengers, namely that it's just a little too clever and cutesy-poo. Reading some of the dialogue I can't help but want the characters to stop trying so damn hard. That's a pretty minor complaint though, and while I prefer my stories to be a little more earnest, I still like the look of this.

I'm tradewaiting this one, as I do with most Image books, so unless they really screw up soon I'll be picking up the first collection.

[bizarrohulk]

After only about a dozen pages, I already find every single character here insufferable. That doesn't bode well.

[icon_uk]

Can't say I'm warming to them either...

[doodleboy]

Lucifer is kind of a tool, but I think she's supposed to be. They're gods... they're also idiot narcissistic kids. Like most talented musicians I guess.

I do like Cassandra's putdown of them.

[thanekos]

I love how deftly expository that panel with the cross necklace is.

It's like " Huh. Wonder what's motivating these people to take shots at self-proclaimed go- Oh. (Really?) "

[doodleboy]

Well admittedly it IS Lucifer...

[silverhammerman]

Is there actually precedent for declaring someone a god and then crucifying them?

As I recall the story of Jesus doesn't have him crucified because the authorities think he's a god, but like, pretty much the exact opposite of that. I think there was one South American tradition that declared a chosen person to be representative of a god, before sacrificing them or somesuch, but that didn't involve crucifixion.

[icon_uk]

How widespread is the acceptance of these people being gods? Might there BE a means for the legals system to deal with it

In the Marvel universe, "Exotic weapons" can be used to define a wide range of superpowers, so Vance Astrovik was prosecuted for murdering his father, despite his father being killed without anyone visibly touching him, by Vance's telekinetic powers, which are classified under the "Exotic weapons" definitions.

[akodo_rokku]

Since they only come around once every 90 years or so and the last time they appeared was the 1920s, it sounds like "not very". After all, in this modern age anything more than 30 or so years ago is considered a primitive, backwards era.

[bizarrohulk]

As regards the quote from Gillen - the difference between David Bowie and Superman (apart from the obvious) is that Bowie is an entertainer and therefore extremely unlikely to ever be in a position where hundreds or thousands of lives are depending on his actions. If a superhero is going to be carrying out a job that's usually reserved for highly-trained professionals, then it's probably better that they haven't just hoovered half the GNP of Colombia up their nose ten minutes before.

I mean, I love The Who, but if I were ever trapped in a burning building, Keith Moon would have been near the bottom of the list of people I'd want to see coming to my rescue (even when he was alive).

[filthysize]

That's not really what he meant. He's talking about the positive effect icons have on their fans. Here's the next line in the quoted interview: "It's the idea that these people are all deeply flawed but they make huge, important differences to people and there are all kinds of ways to save someone's life."