New Avengers #22

[flint_marko]

"And now I'm all out."

He tries killing Namor, but the Hulk separates them.

"" (Watch on YouTube)

Comments

[donnblake]

Why does everyone suddenly have Walton Goggins hair?

Not that that's a bad thing...

[venatosapiens]

Hair game is strong. Now somebody get them their GOTTDAMN MONEY.

Actually, I'm going to read Namor in the voice of Boyd Crowder from now on.

[jlbarnett]

I want Sue to kill him. Because she's the only person who could do it that would make it hurt as he died.

[flint_marko]

Why? He tried making peace with Wakanda, and they responded by leveling Atlantis.

[protogarrett]

Yeah. Black Panther is just as guilty of genocide as Namor is.

Of course, because this is comics neither will ever go to prison or be reviled forever in the hero community. Honestly, if heroes are going to do this shit can we have actual ramifications that last within continuity?

Even Beast is like, "Whatevs, we're just killing off whole worlds and I help build the weapons. BUT AT LEAST I'M NOT BAD LIKE MOTHERFUCKING CYCLOPS, RIGHT?!"

[big_daddy_d]

*sigh*.....

[misanthr0pe]

I have lost my ability to can.

[sindra]

Namor...the guy who is known for being an arrogant jackass...is the only one who knows he's not morally superior enough to have the luxury of not pulling the trigger to save trillions of lives. He takes that burden onto himself under the cloak of apathy. And yet, T'Challa attacks him and continues acting like the morally superior character.

That's right T'Challa. Throw a tantrum at the guy who had to make the decision for you and all the rest of them. That'll totally prove how empathetic you are to the fact you all were responsible for killing a world.

They're all still on their moral high horses. "When did you become such a monster?". The question just burns with obliviousness.

Dammit Hickman!

[drtechnobabel]

I find it hilarious that Reed's the one asking this when he's the one who has to deal with Namor every time he decides to summon giant sea monsters to destroy New York City. You'd think he'd know by now how little Namor cares about the sanctity of human life.

[silicondream]

I would pay actual money if this led to the dead Wakandan kings firing T'Challa and hiring Namor as the new White Panther, thanks to the latter's willingness to defend his country by any means necessary. Because that would be hilarious.

[nyadnar17]

This so hard. Namor is a thousand times the king Panther is. Poor BP's dad much be so disappointed.

[starwolf_oakley]

Namor is turning into the post-Zero Hour pre-Flashpoint Batman here.

"How could you do such an awful thing?"
"**** you, I'm Namor."

[icon_uk]

Though ironically it's Steve who'd been treated like post-Zero hour, pre-Flashpoint Batman

"That's not a good idea and I think you should stop righ...)-)-ZAAAAP-(-( What was I just doing?"

[burkeonthesly]

"When did you become such a monster?"
"Let's see, my first appearance was, what... thirty-nine...? Yeah, thirty-nine."

[drtechnobabel]

When I first saw the panel of Namor and Black Panther laughing, I honestly thought that was part of the actual comic and they were laughing about blowing up a planet. The fact that I would prefer that at this point speaks volumes about what I think of this story.

[michaelhealy]

After all of this they get mad at Namor being the only one to do the thing that they have been preparing to do for most of the series.

There is a manga series called Bokurano that deals with this is kind of moral dilemma, whether it's right to kill an alternate universe to save your own from destruction. It takes on the matter with more angst but a lot less hang wringing about who is responsible and whether they are good people. The thing is the characters dealing with this dilemma are ten years old. Highly dysfunctional ten year olds at that and they are handled very similar issues with significantly more maturity than the best and brightest minds the Marvel universe apparently has to offer.

[q99]

Yeeees, good point.

Really, what we have here is a lot of the same lines being tossed back and forth.

[ablackraptor]

So....How's this going to tie with Namor's adventures with the Invaders?

Edit: Also, while I've had no interest in this story, from the little I've seen, I actually like this ending to the conflict. Seems like a fitting end. I might get the trades or something later, or read it up on Marvel Infinity once everything is collected.

[icon_uk]

Bucky - "Hey Namor, how are things? What you been up to this week"
Namor - "Funny story really....."

Ten minutes later

The rest of the Invaders are looking like the front row for the first ten minutes of "Springtime for Hitler" (Ironically)

Namor - "And how has YOUR week been?"

[doctor_spanky]

I dunno I like it better when superhero comics are fun

[q99]

Marvel puts out fun comics, this just isn't one of them.

Only Avengers I read right now is Mighty.

you reap what you sow Namor

[sun_man]

may your death come quickly. This has been building up since Dark Reign.

Set Up T'Challa so Doom could ice him. Floods Wakanda killing thousands in an unprovoked attack.

Wakanda responds after weeks or months by attacking Atlantis. Obviously, they weren't going to make peace, considering Atlantis didn't bring anything to the table. Its like you murder someone's mom and dad and than call for a truce. Yeah that will go over well.


Than Namor puts the whole damn planet at risk by sending Thanos to the Necropolis.


People complain DC is too dark now, but Marvel's been depressing me since Civil War. This book is like a cross between Avengers, Game of Thrones and some SciFi novel. Story still feels a little forced. BP, Reed and Banner should be smart enough to come up with another solution.

Re: you reap what you sow Namor

[flint_marko]

Namor didn't set him up in Dark Reign, this was dealt with in Black Panther #11.










And Namor's attack was unprovoked? What do you call the Avengers attacking the school and Shuri having Transonic imprisoned?







Than Namor puts the whole damn planet at risk by sending Thanos to the Necropolis.

He was trying to protect his people, who were already weakened from Wakanda's attack. If they hadn't been attacked, they would probably have had a better chance of holding Thanos's forces off.

[writeofway]

*Pym finds out about the literal "Earth-Shattering Kaboom"* (Sorry for the wall of text)

Pym: Is it true?

Tony: Yes. Yes, it is true. We've tried to come up with different ways to-

Pym: No, we haven't, Tony. You have. You, Reed, Bruce, Black Bolt, Stephen, T'Challa, and McCoy. And you all obviously haven't tried hard enough.

Namor: You forgot m-

Pym: The hell I did. What are you even doing here? You're no student of the sciences. T'Challa's at least studied. You're a political figurehead.

Namor: You know nothing, Pym; Especially not your place.

Pym: Where would that be, in the dark with the rest of the superhero community? Have you even considered enlisting other people for help? Did it even cross your minds to think of other methods than stealing the playbook of Marvin The #$%!ing Martian?

Reed: There wasn't enough time to-

Pym: Don't give me that, Reed. We live in a world where we can slow time to a crawl, where we can create pocket dimensions, where the word "impossible" is constantly being redefined and you tell me that the supposed smartest men in the world (Namor excluded) couldn't have figured something out? Would you like to hear my suggestion?

Namor: What would you suggest, little big man? Shrink the Earth down? Brilliant idea.

Pym: No, bring in folks who have expertise in dimensional fissures, anomalies, multidimensional physics, etc; Bring in beings on a grander cosmic level that might be able to offer insight into this like Eternity. Bring in scientists from all over the universe, explain the situation to them, help them realize the gravity of the matter. Hell, bring in Doctor Doom, he lives for trying to solve problems like this, just to prove he really IS the smartest man in the room! What gives you all the right to say you can handle such a responsibility? Are we not all heroes? Am I not a scientist? Are there really so few of us that you can trust to help you bear the burden?

Reed: No offense, Hank, but you aren't exactly the most stable or reliable person in the world. We're the top men in our fields of study and we figured the less arguing-

Pym: Oh, go screw yourself, you sanctimonious sack! You just wanted to be right. You don't give a damn about anyone else but your own satisfaction that you're the best and brightest. Well, maybe not brightest in Namor's case...

Namor: You test my patience and, with it, your life, insect-whisperer.

Pym: Oh, now I see why you're among this group of the smartest morons in history. You're the pragmatist in a room full of pragmatists. You're the proudest one among a group formed by their own enormous pride in themselves.

Namor: The path was chosen, Pym! The bomb was the only solution to be found and they displayed cowardice for the sake of their precious morals! They lacked the courage of their convictions!

Pym: It's real courageous to push a button and condemn billions of people you don't know to die, huh? They aren't Atlanteans, so who gives a damn, right? Certainly not you. Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're saints for not following through, but the point is, they never should've come to this conclusion in the first place! And on top of all of this, when the person you bring in to make sure you guys don't have your heads up your asses tells you when they're firmly entrenched betwixt your cheeks, you have him mind-wiped and shuffle him out the door! You all have got to be the most idiotic brainiacs in the history of humanity! I'm honestly shamed to know a single damned one of you!

Namor: It was a necessary evil! Surely you're aware of the term?

Pym: I have, and I consider it as much of an oxymoron as tranquil fury. Evil, even for good reasons, should never be necessary.

T'Challa: You're right, Hank. We should've asked for help sooner. We should've known this was too big for even those such as us to attempt to handle on our own, regardless of our responsibility.

Namor: Would've, should've, could've! No! I refuse to listen and be lectured to by a man who's greatest contribution to science is Ultron!

Pym: Oh, here it comes again, "Ol' Hank Pym's a screw up, hyuk hyuk hyuk!" It's not the first time I've heard this song and dance and won't be the last. Yeah, I've made mistakes. I've made miscalculations. I've thought I was smarter than I really was before. It's hubris. What's the matter, Spock? Those mighty Atlantean knees buckling under the weight of the world you murdered?

Namor: What would you have done in our stead, Pym? Cry about how unfair life is? Mew about how you wish it had been different? All of us did! All of us wished it hadn't come to something as simplistic as "better them than us", but it did! It did and we all must live with it! I, at least, can hold my head up and say that I did the necessary thing.

Pym: But what about the right thing?

Namor: YOU AND YOUR "MORALS" CAN GO TO HELL! ...My point stands.

Pym: I figured you'd say that. Fine. You bear that weight. Me? I'm going to see if maybe, just maybe, we can ALL figure this out, together. That is, if the rest of you want the help.

[sir_razorback]

You need a job at Marvel... seriously. This is better writing than I've seen in this line-arc since the first book!

[arbre_rieur]

Does anyone else read this as Namor giving up on himself?

[shadowpsykie]

kinda do....

[draganoche]

The saddest thing about this arc is that it shows that for all their talk, I don't think any of them excluding Namor and Strange actually expected to do the deed or could go through with it. They betrayed Cap because he wouldn't consider the worst option but neither did they.

[theflames]

Very true! Yet they were willing to see it to the absolute last moment before they battled with the decision, so I can't fault them for having second thoughts in the face of annihilation.

[shadowpsykie]

Did Namor actually do that? either way, it seems like he is PURPOSEFULLY turning himself into the whipping boy here... he's thinking "They need a villain to justify what they are doing here... so be it.. i will be the villain of the story."

honestly, i don't think any of them have any right to be upset. they BUILT the freaking thing, because that's ALL they have been doing, figuring out a way to destroy a planet AND arguing about it, AND doing it in secret, they have NOT been working on anything else.

HELL Cap would probably have put out an All Points on ANYONE with any scientific, or magical know how. and if they couldn't come up with a PERMANANT solution they could have come up with a VARIETY of solutions.

[espanolbot]

Although I feel sympathy for the regular citizens of BP's country, crap like this hasn't exactly endeared their leadership to me.


Withholding the cure for cancer out of a sense of smug racism... not exactly a heroic move there.

Hell, if Doom had it he'd spread that around the world for free, just so people would know he'd one-upped Reed Richards at something, rather than just hoarding it.

[adam_sherman]

Blame Hudlin. Not Wakanda.

[theflames]

After AvX Captain America wilfully partnered and worked with Namor, yet treated Scott like crap...

I feel he's a poor judge of character after this issue. Its one thing not to regret, its another to be happy about the death of innocents, Namor is full villain.

[brushwoodthicket]

I did see this as Namor having a nervous breakdown after the act. He was starting to feel regret, until they all dog-piled him with judgement. Then he went out of his way to provoke Panther to beat on him.