Captain America and the Mighty Avengers #8

[history79]

Comments

[drexer]

Monica and the Blue Marvel are as fed up with this as we are.

Can we have a What-If where they can properly air their grievances and throw the Illuminati into the sun?

[grumman]

Can we have a What-If where they can properly air their grievances and throw the Illuminati into the sun?

Don't blame the characters, blame the creators.

[big_daddy_d]

Monica and the Blue Marvel are as fed up with this as we are.

I was thinking the same thing.

[drtechnobabel]

This, so much.

[jlbarnett]

I don't care about the Beyond Corporation or not, Nextwave did not deal with as much as the Illuminati, even if the Illuminati dealt with it stupidly

[drexer]

What exactly did the Illuminati "deal with"?

They "dealt with" the Skrulls, which lead to the Secret Invasion.
They "dealt with" the Hulk, which led to his vengeance.
It could also be argued that it was partly the Illuminati bickering that led to the war between Wakanda and Atlantis, with an high number of casualties.

They certainly didn't "deal with" the Incursions, as in the time they spent delaying it, they only took action one or two times and didn't put into effect any large scale evacuation plan.

I feel that any hero that has at any time stepped into the shoes of defending the earth/universe does have ground to criticize the Illuminati, because they were particularly incompetent.

[theflames]

true. but its not about that.

You don't exclude people from a situation where they could have helped, and then turn around and say they can't understand because they don't know what you've been through in that very same situation you excluded them from. They would have known if you let them.

He doesn't know what every hero has experienced, and it was truly naive of him to think that with that with such huge variety of powers and experience in the marvel universe (see; blue marvel and monica) that only five people could do anything about the incursions. Some people - e.g molecule man, monica, manifold etc simply have physical abilities that should have brought them to the table. But they only wanted the 'smart ones'.

[q99]

One of the Illuminati's problems is not bringing in people like Blue Marvel. He's a superscientist who's dealt in other dimensions. They were leaving help- *good* help, better than many of the Illuminati in the field, including T'challa- on the table.

[thehood]

The Beyond Corporation are far more powerful than anything the Illuminati have dealt with.

And Monica single handily defeated one of the BC in the previous issue of MA.

Also, the Beyonders are responsible for Incursions, so i'd listen to Monica here.

[q99]

Oooh yes!


And really, Blue Marvel *totally* should've been called in!

[thehood]

Are you being sarcastic?

Because Blue Marvel should have been called in. He seriously should have.Especially with his experience with the Neutral Zone.

[long_silence]

The Illuminati screwed up by keeping this to themselves.

If they'd worked with everyone on this from the beginning they might have stood a chance. Even if all of the solutions that Hickman just handwaved away off panel during the timeskip like Franklin or moving everyone on Earth to another planet still failed, if they'd worked with the rest of the planet, with other scientists and specialists like Blue Marvel, they could have figured that out sooner.

They could have built that life raft sooner, they could have built more of them, enough to fit the entire planet. Instead they built one they could fit maybe 60 people on, only their chosen best and brightest, the Illuminati, Reed's Future Foundation, some heroes and whichever scientists they deemed worthy.
Instead the Illuminati decided they know best. And now they get to decide who lives and who dies, who is going to restart humanity.

I don't blame Adam and Monica for cussing them out and calling them on the fact that they've made unilateral decisions for the entire universe because of their superiority complexes

[q99]

They could've had a B-team of scientists doing nothing but build life-rafts...

[bewareofgeek]

Hell, there's a serious flaw in their solution to the problem anyway.

They build an ark. That's fine.

Then they pick and choose who goes into it because there isn't enough room for everyone.

With Hank Pym in the room…

[theflames]

ahh.

thats awkward.

[tigerkaya]

Ohh the blame game okay I love that lets do this Blue Marvel you sanctimonious jerk. Where were you during Kang Dynasty, Genosha, Inferno, Kree/Skrull war, and so on oh wait thats right you gave up.

[q99]

Though there is a difference between staying out of something, and not bringing people directly affected in to something.

[matrix_dragon]

I loved the entire bit with Monica and Adam ripping the Illuminati a new one. Not over the 'blowing up entire worlds' question, which the Mighty Avengers themselves noted earlier in the issue was not an easy question (And promptly had Steve Rogers start threatening them as well). But the mistake of keeping it a secret to just a handful of people, believing that only they had the genius to handle it. Every hero, every genius, every God that could possibly have helped, that would have stepped up to help, was left on the sidelines, unaware of the threat.

And every time they've been called out on it, they take the smug 'oh, you can't understand what we've experienced, we had to make the hard decisions no one else could' line. Reed's line there reminds me so much of the smug attitude he gave to the Titleless Avengers over in Hickmans run.

I love that the Avengers had no patience for their crap here, without trying to kill them or whatever the hell Crazy Old Man Rogers is trying to do. They need to work together, in the hopes of saving something in the time left... But afterwards, the Illuminati and Steve Rogers will have a lot to answer for.

[jlbarnett]

I guess for Steve it is an easy question. And honestly I can kind of see how, even if you're just looking at the numbers. Because pretty quickly the numbers start to stack up against you

[locuatico]

And the kickier is: MTN is STILL an improvement over fox news...

[captainbellman]

Heck, they actually have precedent for the things they say. It was only a few years ago that Earth was literally invaded by unsympathetic fundamentalists from another planet.

[thanekos]

Peter Corbeau: Scientist. Astronaut.

This week, yacht captain.

[locuatico]

hey! if the world is going to end anyway, may as well buy that Yacht you always wanted. it's not like those savings are going to be useful for long...

[silverhammerman]

Seeing Ewing, through the characters, point out all of the dumb contrivances and character assassination in Hickman's epic was immensely satisfying. Unfortunately, the fact that Hickman's still writing the main series means that those valid points can't actually go anywhere, and the Mighty Avengers can't be proven right, which is a little frustrating.

Scenes like this really make me wish that Marvel would give Ewing a more prominent role, because I much prefer his writing to Hickman's meticulous but frequently soulless epics.

[nyadnar17]

I haven't given up hope on the Mighty Avengers being proven right yet. True Hickman's scenario doesn't the end of the world being prevented, but it does and has shown that the end of everything could have been accomplished with less loss of life.

I thought Hickman himself had taken shots at Autocrats in FF.

[reveen]

You know, the Illuminati and Namor's lame spinoff are pretty damn lucky they only ran into "weaker" or just similar earths. Imagine if they went to the other Earth with the intent to destroy it and they ran into the fucking Authority?

[deh_tommy]

Well, most likely the other Earths were destroyed by Rabum Alal's machinations.

[deh_tommy]

I would really like to hear that man's explanation over how Stamford was an inside job.

[silverhammerman]

I think a Wolverine tie-in showed that the head of Damage Control had given Nitro a power boost in order to profit off of reconstruction, so that's a strong start. Throw in some political kickbacks and the accusation that Tony Stark had a financial relationship with Damage Control as well as his own political ambitions, and you've got a solid conspiracy theory.

Hell, I've sometimes wondered whether conspiracy theorists would even be deemed crazy in the Marvel Universe, given some of the crazy shit that has actually happened in those stories. I mean there's been government sponsored civilian tracking and registration, extradimensional gulags, mutant concentration camps (in Genosha), captains of industry who turned out to be secret Nazis, clones of Hitler, etc etc etc. In the Marvel Universe you'd have to be really, really out of your gourd to be dismissed entirely.

[starwolf_oakley]

So Reed and T'Calla played the "Hard Man making Hard Decisions" card on Adam and Monica. Adam retired because John F. Kennedy told him America wasn't ready for a black superhero. Monica was a cop before she was a superhero. They are not ones to accept the "Hard Man making Hard Decisions" card.

[q99]

They rip up 'HMmHD' cards :)

[his_spiffynesss]

The is one question I've been wondering about since this business leading up to Secret Wars all started.

Where are all the cosmic powers in the Marvel Universe?

Where is Eternity? The Living Tribunal? The Watchers? You know, the cosmic gods that are supposed to be out there keeping these kinds of shenanigans in check? I mean if this is a universal catastrophe with all of existence at stake, I would think somebody in a higher authority might be in a position to do something about it.

[deh_tommy]

They were seemingly killed by the Beyonders, in their experiments with the Multiverse (as discovered by Hank Pym during his search for them).

[jekylls_salvation]

I will now be reading every appearance of Dr. Peter Corbeau: Scientist, adventurer.

Where did Monica's coat come from between those panels?

[akodo_rokku]

Monica is mad entirely of light. Her appearance is whatever she wants it to be.

[leoboiko]

Is Nextwave Monica her Serious Business Form now?

[zylly]

Two different thoughts.

1) It was deeply satisfying to see Adam and Monica rip into Reed and T'challa. It is so frustrating to see Reed be such an awful person and jerk when roped into crossovers, while the family-man who will always find a solution over in his own book.

2) Can I just say I find the whole Incursions storyline reprehensible on a variety of levels? For two reasons. Super-heroes are always supposed to be the embodiment of "find a third option." Kill or be killed? There's no way that should be the only acceptable alternatives.

And I'm sorry. I fail to believe there's any problem in any universe that some of the smartest people in the universe (Reed, Tony, Beast, Panther, and even Strange) could not find a way to stop and save everyone. It's just not how fiction is supposed to work.