The Punisher vs The Runaways

[cyberghostface]

#26...









They leave the Punisher and the rest of the arc is time-travel shenanigans.

Upon returning in #30...

Comments

[starwolf_oakley]

Joss Whedon has said on the record he doesn't like the Punisher. As such, this isn't surprising.

[bizarrohulk]

Other than Garth Ennis, I don't think there are actually that many Marvel writers who *do* like the Punisher. He tends to get used as a punching-bag outside of his own books.

[cyberghostface]

I think that's only fair given how whenever a superhero appears in the Punisher's main title they're basically fodder to be shot in the gonads and steamrolled or used as a shield against giant boobs.

[cricharddavies]

Well, the Daughters of the Dragon portrayed him as a creepy serial killer torturing his victims to death whom they nonetheless used as a resource.

[ablackraptor]

He was used somewhat fairly in Mark Waid's Daredevil; his co-Punisher-lady-friend wasn't though, but I don't know much about her to comment on how her characterization matched up with it.

[darkknightjrk]

Maybe, but this is absolutely the worst mishandling of the character...well, I would almost say ever, if it weren't for the fact that books like "Frank becomes a flaming angel of God" and "Frank turns black" exist.

Just the idea of Punisher killing a group of kids...no. Just...fucking no. The Punisher doesn't kill kids--he kills the FUCK out of those who kill kids.

[jekylls_salvation]

Joss Whedon is stock for the stocky and the Punisher is a meta flawed embarrassment (What If: Batman was Rorschach?) If Joss Whedon wrote Punisher, I feel like, rather than being expectedly, deeply terrible, it might somehow inverse and be truly good.

[remial]

the only thing better then Molly and the Punisher interacting is Wolverine and Molly interacting.
"198 mutants left on the planet and SHE has to be one of them!"

[beardedjellybean]

The Punisher never really meshes well with superheroes in his own series and out. That's probably why his better stories don't have to much super powered elements in them like MAX.

[icon_uk]

He and the Fury could have a mini series together, with each trying like crazy to murder the other.

[punisher007]

He works pretty well when he's interacting/playing off of certain characters. Black Widow, Wolverine, Daredevil, Spider-Man, Nick Fury, etc.

[cyberghostface]

Yeah. I think it would be better if he existed in his own universe at this point.

Also given that you can't kill off any major villains for real (not including stuff like "Secret Wars" where you know there's a reset button) you have a character whose sole goal is to kill criminals and when he's with superheroes he's stuck killing off d-listers like Stilt-Man or the BND Vulture. It just makes him look incompetent.

[mrstatham]

This. Again, the only real run I've seen with Frank that suited 616 was Rucka's, where he had to go to the length of establishing new villains and could only kill off shitty ones that no-one really cared about - BND Vulture, as you say. Rucka did, however, put Frank on par with the Avengers in really intelligent and smart ways beyond just 'shoot 'em with something big', which was the stupid resolution of his time in the Thunderbolts, recently.

[tigerkaya]

So true, at this point let the Punisher die in the 616 post Secret Wars and let his primary appearance be in the MAX series.

[silverhammerman]

I think existing in the mainstream Marvel universe is only as big an issue as writers make of it. Like, a few simple guidelines would be enough to make the concept make sense:

1) Make the Punisher smart enough to stay out of New York/away from superhumans whenever possible 2) Have him only go after the kind of normal criminals who logically still exist in the Marvel Universe, but aren't being taken on by the superheroes (seriously, when was the last time Thor busted up human traffickers?) 3) Establish that other superheroes either have bigger fish to fry than going after the Punisher, or that some even condone his behavior, which isn't that big a stretch.

It's small world writing and constant crossovers that make the Punisher in the 616 illogical.

[ablackraptor]

Seeing that panel reposted somewhere was the first time I was introduced to Molly Hayes. Honestly a pretty great way to be introduced to a character.

[punisher007]

Yeah as much as I like Joss Whedon overall, he should NEVER write the Punisher. Because his dislike is REALLY apparent, and this crappy characterization ensues. If a writer doesn't like a particular character, that's fine. But then don't write them, because chances are you'll screw it up.

[cyberghostface]

Does that apply to Garth Ennis writing any MU superhero?

[nyadnar17]

Yes to both. I don't buy these books to read about how much the writer hates them.

Same with Grant Morrison and Magneto.

[tigerkaya]

I'd like to think of it as payback for all those bad characterization of several Marvel heroes featured in a Punisher title being jobbed just to make Punisher look good. Seems only fair.

[starwolf_oakley]

Some of these replies describing the Punisher remind me of when Batman is at his worst: Every "reformed" criminal is faking it to fool his victims or avoid punishment.

[yvonmukluk]

Still a better Punisher story than Edmondson's conservative propaganda.

[janegray]

...Holy shit.

[silverhammerman]

I'd seen some vague online talk about the most recent Punisher run's gross politics, but having only read the first issue I wasn't clear on the full context. Thanks for sharing this.

Honestly the Punisher, when written as a hero, is such an inherently right wing and frankly toxic concept, that I think it would be interesting to see a hard left wing writer do a spin on him. Try to spin the stupid, cathartic basis for the character in a different direction.

[philippos42]

Well, that was some angry, hateful stuff.

Maybe it's time for a serious take on the Spanker. A vigilante who just wants to discipline the unruly.