Secret Wars #4

[flint_marko]

I know his death will be undone before the event is over, but it's disappointing he's been taken off the board already.

Comments

[icon_uk]

We shall all miss Racer X for his valuable contribut... hang on.....

[glprime]

I. AM. PHOENIX. **CCC-CAAAWWW**

[doodleboy]

Hickman's crazy Cyclops is entertaining.

[captainbellman]

In his last moments, Scott saw exactly the haunting image we've all encountered...a red X.

[sagrada]

"Wait, wait wait! You mean THIS was on my mask this WHOLE TIME and nobody told me?! Come on, guys! How the heck was I supposed to know?"

[draganoche]

I just realized with this issue that there are no duplicates of any of the FF in battleworld. I thought there was a Thing in future imperfect but that's just an alt Ross. I wonder if it's purely a subconscious thing by Doom to only have his FF in Battleworld since the other survivors on the ships do have duplicates.

[doodleboy]

Probably the case. Battleworld's Human Torch became the sun. And then there is speculation that Doom made the Shield out of the Thing (which does explain the texture of the Shield on some panels).

[shadowpsykie]

so is this Doctor Strange (our strange) or Dooms Strange or as i like to call him Durmstrang

[silverhammerman]

Our Strange, he's explicitly the one who helped Doom battle the Beyonders and rebuild the world.

[draganoche]

It's our Strange. He had a thing where he went multiverse traveling, hooked up with some other multiversal wizards, became their leader, fought against the black swans, lost, met doom and worked with him to take down the Beyonders. Then he did some stuff with Doom to make battleworld as the only other person who remembered what the old world was like.

[starwolf_oakley]

Scott-Phoenix has a "Mr. Majestic" vibe going on.

http://writeups.org/img/fiche/2533a.jpg

[night4345]

He looks more like a combination of Captain Britain and the Guardian

[obsidianwolf]

So just as mykoko96 predicted last post Phoenix Scott exist to get worfed by doom.

I still have no real interest in this event since I hate Doom esp when writers are going for the noble demon angle. Add Doom's prominence to Hickman's inability to actually deliver anything but what amounts to a plot out line ripping off past epics in a ridiculously pretentious way I'll just be ignoring Marvel until the event is over and hope Hickman isn't on any marvel book when this is over.

[thanekos]

I dunno, power enough to knit broken pieces of the multiverse together and keep them whole versus one manifestation of the Phoenix Force?

Not hard to justify it going the former's way.

[obsidianwolf]

Of course it all depends on which version of the phoenix writers are using. since it has been everythign from a minor cosmic entity to a Multiversal force that sits above Eternity and below the Tribunal but then again nothing matters except Hickman's idea of epic story telling. The fact he shredded established marvel cosmology to make the Beyonders this awesome threat then had them be killable by Thor and Hyperion and beaten by Doom is just one of the bigger problems with this entire run.

I mean if Doom really had the power level they keep trying to tell us he has. Why hasn't he just erased dissent or fixed the many problems his world has that is barely hanging together. It comes off more Doom wins because he's supposed to win. Not that he's actually shown to have any where near the cosmic power he should have if he's trouncing the phoenix and building worlds.

Now if I thought Hickman was a decent writer I'd love for this to be the Doom beats the beyonder moment since we had to have a retread of the battle world concept on a ridicules scale. Maybe have the Phoenix come back at the end in a different host playing into the death and rebirth themes associated with it and telling Doom that the Beyonders were doomed from the beginning because everything was meant to happen. (Franklin would be a good choice since HIckman loves to use him for the ass pull) However, nothing like that will happen so we won't get any of this mess retconned until a few years from now.

Though it still amuses me that the Multiverse is dead and gone but the MCU hasn't been touched no MCU folks running around. NO implication that it got caught up in this mess. The only thing more powerful than badly written events the cash cow you don't screw with.

[ablackraptor]

There's also been no other non-comic adaptations involved in it either. As far as I've seen, no animated universe or other film franchise has had its characters pulled into the story. I don't see why MCU being unaffected means anything, given how difficult it would be to feasibly do that in the first place.

[obsidianwolf]

The thing is though we know Marvel will touch non comic adaptations in these crossovers if they want to. You only have to look at Slott's spiderverse where he happily killed off Spiderman and his amazing friends.

Marvel has also done tie in comics for the films so it isn't impossible for them to use the designs from the MCU if they wanted to but the films aren't being touched and I doubt it is difficulty in implying them that is keeping them out of it.

[bruinsfan]

Well, the Beyonder was shown to be above the Phoenix's weight class back in the day, so Doom usurping Beyonder power and curbstomping the current Phoenix host is consistent with the previous crossover series.

I do think Hickman making the Beyonders a bunch of destruction-obssessed Transformer knockoffs that are somehow vulnerable to being killed by Thor, Hyperion, and a rogue Photoshop filter in Doom's employ is pretty cheap. As is the complete dismissal of the Living Tribunal and other higher-order beings of the Marvel Universe that operate on levels of reality above the purely physical.

[obsidianwolf]

Yeah during Secret Wars II when the Beyonder was actually all powerful (Before that got retconed quickly) he swatted the PHoenix likeit was nothing. Later retcons of both swapped their power levels with the Beyonder being just a cosmic cube (and actually weaker than Molecule man when Owen really cut loose during a psychotic break that one time) and PHoenix actually pruning realities away.

I wouldn't have a problem with Doom dealing with the phoenix so easily if they actually made Doom feel powerful but this whole set up doesn't. It comes off as if Doom is just barely holding everything together.

I mean say what you will about Shooter's secret wars or Starlin's infinity gauntlet but the "all powerful" threats in them came off as if they were actually all powerful. IMO even Doom himself has come off more all powerful in previous times that he's gained phenomenal cosmic power.

Of course this all goes back to the obvious weakness in Hickman's writing that causes things to come off like a GM railroading a campaign to tell his epic vision of a story regardless of how many plot holes there are.

[mykoko96]

I"m touched that someone actually remembered my prediction.

[lordultimus]

I notice the fact that you didn't post the other death that happens immediately after this one.

SPOILERS: It's Strange.

[tigerkaya]

I'm sorry Scott I couldn't quite hear you over that cracked neck noise, oh well I'm sure it was nothing.

[philippos42]

Doom just one-hand neck-snapped the Phoenix, you say? Yeah, whatever. Hickman must really want to be a lightning rod of fan disgust and mockery. He probably seethes with envy for DiDio's hate mail.

[aperturedreams]

Actually, Hickman's one of Marvel's most popular writers. It's just around Scans Daily and a few small pockets elsewhere that people don't like him. I'm not saying you should feel one way or another about him, but he's generally quite well-liked.

[philippos42]

Oh! You misunderstand! I'm saying that I dislike him, and I think his work is pretentious and overly slow-paced. I have this problem with Greg Rucka as well.

But Hickman may be worse. His concepts are so over-the-top! And his characters are...earnestly self-important in a self-consciously masculine way.

I like his Hyperion, and I don't hate his version of Sunspot. But the Illuminati are a bunch of nightmare exaggerated versions of useless politicians. Maybe superhero comics should be an antidote to that sort of helpless, deluded self-importance. But Hickman wallows in it.

[aperturedreams]

Well I like him, but those are all pretty valid criticisms.

[espanolbot]

Eh. I like Doom as a character more than I like Scott. I have no problem with this.

[nyadnar17]

Pretty sure this isn't the last we have heard of Pheonix!Clops. Hickman spent a lot of time he didn't need to placing him on the board if all he was going to use him for was showing how strong god!Doom is.

[tonybennett3]

Just want to say, his name is Phoenix. It aint over 'till Doom drains your life-force!