Batman and Robin Eternal 3

[espanolbot]

The action catches up with Cass with Jason Todd aiming at gun at her face in the bar from Garth Ennis' Section 8 comic, and she responds to him mockingly threating to shoot her by kicking him across the room. He then attempts to actually disembowel her with hidden blades inside his armour, but only manages to slash her partially across the stomach before Dick and the gang show up to tell Jason to knock it off as Cass is there to help.

The run over to the bar has unfortunately caused Harper's stiches to open up, so they all rush her to Batcave to patch her up and to get some kind of explanation from Cass as to what's going on.



Jason and Tim are confused as to what Cass was pointing at, only for Dick to realise that she was possibly pointing at the tiny robot on his chest he uses to talk to his Spyral mates. He opens up the line so the Robins and co. can talk to Helena, who gives them the low down on what exactly Mother might be.

Turns out that she's a woman with a speciality in mindcontrol and has claimed to possess the ability to build people for specific purposes, such as, say, child soldiers. Jason glibbly suggests that might be why Bruce was interested in her, and a flashback Dick has suggests that he fears Mother might have had a hand in Bruce training him... or something.

Helena tells them that they've managed to get a lock on the agent targetted by Mother's control, and it seems that she's at a charity event being hosted by Bruce Wayne, which causes Dick to leap into action to save his dad while the rest of the Bat Kids just kind of sit around.



At the benefit, Bruce is invited into the kitchen by a chief, only to be set upon by a good dozen people who are now under the control of Mother... which'll be picked up in the next issue, presumably.

Comments

[janegray]

Somebody on tumblr was theorizing that Cass was pointing at the biggest strengths of the Robins: Jason is Brawn (his fist), Tim is Brains and Dick is Heart.

I like that a lot. I love the three brothers working together, each of them excelling at one particular aspect of the Batman persona. I love it so much :D

And now Cass and Steph are back too. The five of them together again :D

[icon_uk]

I'm not quite comfortable with the reducing of the Robin's down to one trait (One reason I have never liked "What Hogwart's House would you be in" things as Hogwarts has a completely reprehensible approach IMHO, best summarised here.), as a Robin is more than that, but it's a better notion than mine which was her pointing out the moves she COULD have used to kill them if she'd been so inclined.

[janegray]

Personally, I don't really think of it as reducing them to one trait, but as emphasizing their best trait.

Jason is not as smart as Tim nor as emphatic as Dick, but he is certainly not an idiot and plenty of scenes shows he can be very sensitive (though he usually expresses that through rage, like he becomes utterly livid when he sees child abuse). Tim is not as tough as Jason nor as emphatic as Dick, but he is certainly not weak and he is defiitely a kind guy. And Dick was tough and smart enough to become the leader of the Titans.

It's like the typical magical girl groups in anime. Sailor Moon was the emphatic one, Mercury was the smart one, Jupiter the strong one, Venus was the determinator, and Mars the one who could be surprisingly reliable and perceptive. That doesn't reduce the girls to one trait, but empathizes their role in the group so that the group as a whole is stronger.

...And now I want to see fanart of the Batclan as Sailor Scouts.

(Also now I'm feeling kinda guilty for completely forgetting about Damian before. The little bastard has actually grown on me a lot).

[icon_uk]

That might work somewhat better in the old DCU, but we're not there any more alas, there were no Titans in Dick's past to use as an exemplar, and this is a different in many ways, Dick Grayson (depending on who is writing him of course)

The "individual aspects" works in a team, but these versions of the Batfamily really aren't team-mates, they have all been through the same well-rounded personality of a Robin, but are not a unit per se, and if they have grown up differently, it's not really because of any need to populate the individual dynamics of a team.

Oh, and since you ask! :)





And for the animation side of things....

Bat Planet Power! MAKE UP

[beyondthefringe]

Thank you, Internet, for giving me what I didn't need or ask for and can never unsee. :)

Not enough of Dick's butt.

[janegray]

I guess I just personally much prefer the idea of each Robin having his own individual emphasis on a best trait that sets him apart from the others. YMMV :)

OMG those pictures are AWESOME. And the video had me in tears XD

[icon_uk]

Oh I can see where you're coming from, and the comments on this thread are moving me towards the viewpoint, I think when i wrote that I was comign down off some very negative tumblr posts and was feeling grumpy...

Glad you liked the images... I couldn't find this one last night, but I knew I had it somewhere;

[janegray]

How do you always find all these awesome things? <3

[q99]

First one's the best ^^

[zechs80]

So does that make Midnighter-- Tuxedo Mask? I want Midnighter as Tuxedo Mask now.

[q99]

Take a look at earlier the conversation-

Jason threatens her, Dick stops him, Tim tries to figure out what else they can use. Fist, heart, head.

[icon_uk]

This may ramble a bit, so sorry....

As the conversation and the implications are written by the same person who wrote the confrontation scene, in the same issue, that's sort of a self fulfilling prophecy, isn't it? :)

I know that fans of the current iteration of Jason aren't happy about his depiction here either. Jason doesn't seem as default-state angry or prone to fits of rage as his pre-New 52 version. He CAN be pushed to the edge (as Bruce did with him in the "Search for Damian" story recently) but he's more... wooby than he used to be.. murderously wooby at times, but such is life. (I confess I don't follow his title, so can't swear to it)

I think it also might have to do with my feelings as to what a vague term "heart" is in this context, especially as a defining trait.

Jason - Punch it out!

Tim - Think it through!

Dick - Heart about it?

If they're saying that Dick has a more empathic nature then fair enough but I'm not sure what that means in terms of him as a crime fighter. There has been much discussion about how Dick has lost a lot what we've seen of him in the past in the new 52, we don't often see the obsessive personality or the detective smarts he used to have (That last role was more or less ceded to Tim for reasons I've never been entirely clear on, but I think the intent was to make Dick more of an all-rounder than Tim or Jason, he's not the best at anything other than acrobatics, but he's the best in terms of range of excellence).

Is it perhaps Tim wants to know HOW things work, Dick wants to understand WHY they work? I'm honestly not sure. Dick should be a terrific detective and a terrific fighter in his own right so "heart" seems a very wooly term to use.

It might be something as fine as the difference between intelligence and being smart, which aren't quite the same thing. The best example being the difference between Brainiac 5 and Invisible Kid in the Post Zero Hour Legion... B-5 rejected the results of a very complicated experiment he'd been running because they didn't prove the thesis he was working on and thought no more about them, but Invisible Kid (A genius in his own right but not on B-5's level) saw the potential in the thought-sensitive, anti-gravity metal that resulted from B-5's experiment and thus created the flight rings.

Gosh that DID ramble, didn't it. Sorry about that.

[acethepug]

That's exactly what I thought, too. Head, hands, heart.

Still not sure if I should be celebrating Cass' return to the DCU, or worrying if something really horrible will be done to her :(

[zapbiffpow]

This. So much this. Just seeing those tags together on one post gave me that fuzzy whatever I used to get from Batman: Reborn.

[big_daddy_d]

I was thinking body, mind, and spirit myself.

[q99]

That's what my mind immediately leapt to.

[bradygirl_12]

Somebody on tumblr was theorizing that Cass was pointing at the biggest strengths of the Robins: Jason is Brawn (his fist), Tim is Brains and Dick is Heart.

*nods*

That's exactly how I read it! Jason is Rage and Brawn while Tim is the Brains and Dick is Heart, or Compassion/Empathy. All three have detective skills, at different levels, because Dick tends to use book smarts and instinct to propel his detecting, Tim from books but is getting better at instinct, and Jason learned the skills via Batman, too, but probably misses stuff due to that eternal rage of his.

It's kind of 4-H: Hands, Head, Heart.

[mrstatham]

Wow, Tim's being a dick in this story so far; spying on the girls, stating that Cass basically has a child's mindset because she doesn't speak, and then proposing candy or peanuts? The fuck?

[thezmage]

Circus peanuts are a type of candy, actually. One of the bad guys in All New Atom was obsessed with them.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circus_Peanuts

[informationgeek]

That was my interpretation of what Cass was doing as well. It was quite nice and it sort of reminded me almost of the ending of Death Note where Near had Light corner and explained that he and Mello united are L in a sense. Like these three together are Batman.

[redmagpie]

You missed the panel where Steph was protecting Cass WITH HER BODY

I feel much better about my otp after this issue

[q99]

Ironically, they haven't spent all that much time together since Cass was Batgirl (convergence aside), yet they are so very bound in the fandom's minds ^^

[redmagpie]

That sort of attests to how good the writing was, and how well the characters work together. And the fact that even if the moments have been small, they're consistently linked.

And it's not like fandom should be dismissed. People love them together, romantically or platonically, and it's something that DC seems to have put actual work into ignoring when they could easily have made money out of it.

I really hope this leads to a new BoP book starring them and Harper. Maybe Julia too.

[q99]

I think part of it is also their shared real troubles with the publisher. They became the two poster girls for DC mucking with characters and having their heads up their butts.

Though the writers do really deserve the primary credit, that helped cement it.

-
That sort of attests to how good the writing was, and how well the characters work together. And the fact that even if the moments have been small, they're consistently linked. -

Yea. Like, they had a few issues together. Then there was an issue where Cass slept through the entire issue and Stephanie took her place, thinking of Cass the whole time. Steph took over the book for a whole issue while the 'star' did nothing and it was *great*.

Then when Cassandra had a near-death experience, who did she have visions of? Stephanie Brown, of course. Who handed over a Batgirl costume to Steph? Cassandra, of course. Even though Cass barely appeared in the series, there was still that link.

They just work really, really well.

[masterdick161]

I totally agree with the "pointing out their strengths" bit. I had thought the same but was confused because it appears Jason and Dick both get "heart" pointed out. Then I saw someone clarify that it was actually Jason's hand and it all fell into place. I LOVE SEEING THE ROBINS TOGETHER.... sorry had to get that out.

[lucean]

For me the Jason being the hand is really weird, as Jason is not a more skilled combatant than Dick, although I guess it might be more representative of him being the force of persona.

And I keep being utterly baffled why they keep having Jason around as he again appears to try to kill someone and everyone else is pretty much shrugging how that us just Jason.

[icon_uk]

I agree with the second point, but as for the first, I think it's a case that no he's not more skilled, but combat would be his first response just as Tim's would be to think things through, and Dick's would be assess the people involved.

[lucean]

I didn't think of it that way, it is probably really good approach. I've always thought that Jason represented Batman's rage, so it does fit with that.

[thenicochan]

I'm not reading this yet, but these scans make me want to. I love the interaction between the Robin bros, and I dig Cass' reintroduction so far (or maybe I just dig the fact she's being reintroduced. Whatever)

Having Steph around is also great. This feels like the stuff the fandom has always wanted/played with in fic. It's also pretty awesome to see Dick taking charge and the guys working without Bruce.

Agreed re: Cass pointing out some of their "primary traits".

It's been a minute for me. Where's Damian during all this Robin chilling?

[beeyo]

Damian hasn't shown up yet, but he's coming back to Gotham for Robin War so that's probably when he'll get involved.

[thenicochan]

I can dig it.

[chalicother]

We honestly just need a bat-kids book or bat-kids television series. Have Bruce be the Red Forman dad, trying not to lose his mind due to the kid's antics.

[espanolbot]

Oddly enough there were plans for a Bat family cartoon way back when which included Cass... it kind of fell through though.
http://eyzmaster.blogspot.co.uk/2011/10/deleted-scenes-canceled-no-mans-land.html

[chalicother]

Oh yeah I remember reading that on scans daily before. Now when thinking of this kids plus Luke Fox, Barbara, and Duke, I hope an idea of a bat kids team book or show happens and editors like them, before we get someone who is like "there are too many bat kids around, time to to cut that number down!".

[thenicochan]

I'd settle for a decent animated series with the whole Batfamily (plus honorary members like Catwoman) as major supporting characters.

But as losing Young Justice and gaining Beware the Batman has taught me: We are not allowed nice things.

...I feel like there's a webcomic dealing with Dad!Batman and Kid!Robins + Baby!Terry. Am I imagining that?

[kurenai_tenka]

Harper! Steph! Cass! Jason! <3

Who's actually writing this? Or does it switch like Batman Eternal? I'm super behind on BE so wouldn't exactly be able to jump in, but I'm usually here for anyone but Lobdell writing Jason, and I'm certainly here for anything with the other above three characters.

[espanolbot]

It has pretty much the same writers as BE (Scott Snyder, James Tynion etc.), but due to it having only a 26 issue run rather than a 52 issue one, it seems to be a bit better paced this time around.

Plus Cass and the rest of the female cast are awesome. Tim and Jason though... eh?

[chalicother]

I like the way Jason is written here, then again I prefer Jason as a good guy or at the most anti-hero like that of Punisher. (Also to add that Jason is my favorite Robin). Tim I can agree on, I have no idea what DC felt that they need to fix , since he was already okay as a character.

[kurenai_tenka]

Hmm, I'll consider getting the trade when I'm caught up on BE then, in that case.

[shadowpsykie]

ALL MY FAVORITE CHILDREN BACK TOGETHER!

[thenicochan]

ISN'T LIFE GREAT??

[junipepper]

Yes, but I'm kind of afraid to say it too loudly, lest Big Dan find out. Whereupon he'd immediately cancel it. Because (sing it, everybody) DiDio hates me.