NS: Representation and the DC Cinematic Universe

[espanolbot]

The casting rumours for the upcoming JLDark adaptation Dark Universe have started, and if there is any weight to them (Ron Perlman as Swamp Thing seems likely, WOO!) they do have an interesting casting call that, if true, folks here might be curious about.

Namely, they may be looking for a black/Latina actress to play Zatanna.

This could actually be a big deal for a number of reasons, but it does seem to be playing into the overall casting apprach (if true) evident in their other post-Man of Steel DC films. Jason Mamoa's Aquaman is meant to be part Pacific Islander. Mercy Graves in Batman v Superman is being played by a Japanese actress. French-Moroccan actor Said Taghmaoui said in an interview last month that he'd be playing a superhero in Wonder Woman (which began shooting a week or so ago). Cyborg's film is going to be made in the near future. Stuff from the Suicide Squad set imply that the Killing Joke has happened and that Jena Malone may be playing Barbara Gordon, so Oracle is a possibility. Heck, the majority of the Suicide Squad cast are people of colour... Admittedly they are mostly supervillains, but still!

This is odd when compared to the more widely established Marvel Cinematic Universe, which when casting the Doctor Strange movie evidently had trouble casting an Asian actor to play the typically Tibetan character of the Ancient One, instead going for Tidal Swinton instead...

I honestly really hope that Batman v Superman does well. I mean, it'll make a billion dollars just by being a Batman and Superman movie, but I want it to do well so we can get more of what WB seem to be trying to do in regards to overall representation in their movies. Now if they had more LGBTQ folks (although the Flash is being played by a bisexual actor, Ezra Miller, there is no indication that the character will be) we'd be golden.

Comments

[captainbellman]

Eh, as much as I am in favour of better representation, it's not going to be doing diverse actors a lot of favours if S/B is panned by critics, which seems highly likely. Going by the Wabbit's previous record on audience and critical response this might make them give up on the whole idea - see also the numerous times they've tried to put Wonder Woman to screen.

True, it'll make some money from being these two icons in a fistfight, but Snyder's past approaches to, well, literally anything he's done, coupled with all of the tediousness I perceive in the promotional materials...well, I don't have a lot of faith.

Still. Hope springs eternal for "Suicide Squad".

[espanolbot]

Personally, I put most of the faults of Man of Steel on David S Goyer (who wrote it), on Christopher Nolan (who produced it), and WB for wanting it to be like the Dark Knight by hiring the last two people.

I think that Snyder is capable of watching films that are in the very least watchable (such as the Dawn of the Dead remake and most of Watchmen), it's more a question of who is writing and whether someone with a clearer idea of what they want is in charge. And considering Argo writer Chris Terrio is the one who actually wrote the script this time, and that Geoff Johns and other DC folks are involved in the making of the film in the executive producer stage...

I'm kind of more hopeful for BvS than I was for Man of Steel. Which was a heavily flawed film, but still had some good ideas in there.

[captainbellman]

Enh, I don't really consider "Watchmen" watchable (oh, the bitter irony) - not to mention "Sucker Punch". So I suppose I'm naturally prejudiced...really, I think I have more excitement building up to the release of "Godzilla v King Kong", in terms of upcoming versus movies.

[espanolbot]

Ah, different strokes, I guess. Never saw Sucker Punch, didn't seem to be my kind of movie.

[liliaeth]

Yeah, I remember how happy I was to hear that Michael Jordan was cast as Johnny Storm, to then find out how much the movie sucked, completely outside of his fault... It's just such a pity.

[captainbellman]

Case in point, exactly. It just wasn't fair on the performer (and probably the best actor out of all of that cast, in all honesty).

[bruinsfan]

I think Reg E. Cathey would take that title if people outside the four themselves are in the running. But the cast of a Wes Anderson movie couldn't have saved that trainwreck.

[fiddlingfrog.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I wonder if they intend to play the character as southern Italian or stay true to the actress's actual background.


Tidal Swinton sounds like she could be a superhero herself, or at least a superhero's cousin.

[captainbellman]

There ought to be a league of heroes based on terrible puns based on celebrity names. George Clone-y. Jennifer Torrent. Benedict Thunderclap. Emily Blunt Trauma. Marvel Streep.

[mrstatham]

Are you sure you're not Adam Warren in disguise? Because those are prime Empowered-style terribly-named supervillains right there.

[captainbellman]

I don't think I'm as attuned to pop culture as he is, alas!

Oh, while I'm at it: Katy Perilous. Crude Law. Satan Jenner.

[espanolbot]

Nikki Mirage.

[captainbellman]

Ooh, well played.

[icon_uk]

Kurt Busiek's Astro City already introduced us to a young girl with tsunami creating powers; The Tidal Waif! :)

[jmacq1]

I don't think calling out the Dr. Strange film for it's Ancient One casting is exactly fair. If played straight, the Ancient One is about as much of an Asian stereotype as the Mandarin would be, if a more positively slanted one. Likewise with the (as yet unmentioned and possibly not in the movie) "Asian manservant" Wong. It was less about "not being able to find a good Asian actor" and more "not wanting to feed the stereotype."

If they put Tilda Swinton in "Yellowface" then it'll be another animal altogether, but I don't think they're going that route. But they cast a fascinating and talented actress in an interesting and thematically important role, which is a lot better off than some of the alternatives.

[sadoeuphemist]

"Immortal wizard" is not particularly an Asian stereotype.

[jmacq1]

It is when the characterization involved is basically the "wise old Himalayan sensei/bodhisvatta"

[sadoeuphemist]

If you cast Tilda Swinton as a wise old Himalayan sensei/bodhisvatta, that is also racist.

[jmacq1]

Why do you assume that's the characterization they're going with?

Given Tilda Swinton and Marvel's comments on the matter, that doesn't sound like the track they're taking with the character, and instead turning it into something considerably more otherworldly.

[sadoeuphemist]

If they are not making the character a wise old Himalayan sensei/bodhisvatta, and instead making them an otherworldly immortal magician, then it would not be racist to cast an Asian for the part.

[jmacq1]

*sigh* Well, congratulations, you've achieved ouroboros status and fairly proven that no matter what a movie studio does, it's never going to be diverse enough.

Tell me, which is more wrong: Shutting out a woman from a non romantic interest/non "Mom" role or shutting out an Asian from a "sensei" role?

[dustbunny105]

I'm really not understanding your argument here. You say it would be racist to feature an Asian as a wise old Himalayan sensei/bodhisvatta stereotype, then suggest that the character isn't going to be a wise old Himalayan sensei/bodhisvatta. In that case, what's the problem with casting an Asian? And why should casting an Asian mean shutting a woman out of the role? They could have cast an Asian actress.

[jmacq1]

I see your point, honestly, it's just incredibly frustrating to me that it doesn't seem like a single piece of popular entertainment can be made today without someone getting up in arms about it.

I'm tired of effectively being told that I cannot enjoy any piece of entertainment without being guilty of tacitly perpetuating some perceived wrong. Because I can guarantee you I can find some injustice or inequity to complain about in pretty much every piece of entertainment ever crafted if I look hard enough.

[fredneil.livejournal.com]

I think I have the solution.

DIsney owns Marvel.
Disney owns Star Wars.

Just CGI Yoda in.

[sadoeuphemist]

Dude, you are the one who is saying that it would be racist to cast an Asian as the Ancient One. I am the one saying, no, that wouldn't be racist at all. I am not the one straining to find racism here!

[skjam]

Meanwhile, Eastern European villain Baron Mordo will apparently be played by a dark-skinned actor.

[jmacq1]

I'm not sure if you're saying that as a slam on Marvel or in support of it, but it's giving a talented black actor a major role in a blockbuster motion picture where otherwise that role wouldn't exist for a black actor, and given that Mordo had a redemptive arc in the funnybooks, it may not be as simple as him playing a straight villain. Or at the very least he will likely have some nuance.

[punisher007]

Given Marvel's track record when it comes to their non-Loki film villains, I'm not holding my breath on that one.

[punisher007]

See my problem with the "well of course they change it, racist stereotype" excuse is simple. Be it with The Ancient One or The Mandarin or whatever. Do not try and tell me that it's IMPOSSIBLE to have them be Asian without having them be "racist stereotypes." Because I'm not buying that for one second. It may take some creative writing (heaven forbid), but it is doable. But Marvel just doesn't even want to try, and in the process denies some Asian actors the chance to play prominent roles in their films (something that we've gotten virtually none of thus far btw).

[mrstatham]

The funny thing is that I was totally fine with the MCU's Mandarin right up to that reveal, because reinterpreting him as they did - complete with the news broadcasts and mocking, drawling speeches? I was fine with that. The reveal just made it awkward, like this epic POC supervillain targeting the world's richest, most intelligent man just had to be the creation of another super-intelligent rich man.

[sadoeuphemist]

If the Mandarin was a real character, he would be a joke. Bombing Grauman's Chinese Theatre because it's not authentically Chinese? That's not epic, that's insultingly dumb.

[icon_uk]

Hispanic? Wouldn't an actress of Italian descent be more logical? (Not that the two are mutually exclusive mind you...)

[punisher007]

Yes, Marvel track record is hardly spectacular in this area (at least in their films). The idea of a Black/Latina Zatanna is not something that I'd have initially thought of, but I'd have to see the context before making any real judgments.

[bruinsfan]

I don't think Zatanna's ethnicity is an important component of the character, so I'm perfectly willing to give some leeway for interesting casting in this role. Now if they get rid of her traditional outfit, I'll cry foul.

[espanolbot]

Just as long as they don't use her Flashpoint costume.

[icon_uk]

I hesitate to ask, but would that be even remotely functional as a pair of trousers, never mind comfortable?

[alicemacher]

My guess is they're attached to her hips with spirit gum.

[icon_uk]

Does anyone recal when it was revealed his first name was Giovanni and he was of Italian descent, rather than the "John" he'd used for ages? (When they finally got around to giving him a first name)