The Ultimates: Grand Theft America - Part 5

[history79]

9 pages of 28

Comments

[captainbellman]

If the Colonel's name is Al-Rahman, why is there a giant W on his chest? I thought Millar was meant to be the one who was insistent about what uniform letters stand for!

[silverhammerman]

The only speculation I've ever seen is that it stands for the region of Waziristan. Apparently the Taliban had connections there during the War on Terror, so it's not an entirely illogical reference.

[filthysize]

Well, it is, though, because The Colonel has nothing to do with the Taliban or that region. He was an innocent kid from Iraq who's angry because The Ultimates invaded his country.

[silverhammerman]

I suppose it might fit as perhaps a name drop by the character or more likely, his backers, but you're right in that it's still a pretty massive stretch. There has to be some explanation for the W, because I don't see why Bryan Hitch would add it randomly, but I don't really know what it could be.

[katefan]

What I'm wondering is, if he's so anti-American why is he using a Western letter to describe himself? Wouldn't he be using Arabic? Or is that asking too much thought for a Mark Millar comic?

[captainbellman]

This is, remember, the writer of "Kick-Ass", "Wanted" and that one X-Men story where Dr. Strange is a mutant-hating cannibal who lives in the Amazon. Thought doesn't come into it.

[laughing_tree]

Nobody becomes as successful as Mark Millar is by sheer luck. His work has always struck me as mindless in a very controlled, mindful way, if that makes any sense.

[katefan]

I think part of his success was early on he worked with Grant Morrison (I heard the two parted on less than amicable terms.) when he broke into the American market at DC Comics so he got a leg up in the industry. And he was fortunate enough to associate himself with some top tier artistic talent (Quitely, Hitch, Romita Jr.).

[grapeweasel]

"Do you think the W on my chest stands for....."

Nah. Low-hanging fruit......

[rainspirit]

...waiting?

Wait, no, you were probably going in a completely different direction. <_<

[captainbellman]

Blue-Lantern Flash knows the appropriate gesture for that thought.

http://media.dcentertainment.com/sites/default/files/files/2010/01/bln07_cvr4.jpg

[trooper924]

What is up with the Abomination up there? When he's walking in front of the crowd, he looks like he's about to tip over.

[thatnickguy]

Too much celebratory drinking.

Which, for The Abomination, is an ungodly amount.

We're talking at LEAST five beers.

[bruinsfan]

He has digitigrade legs and a long tail, so his normal posture is reminiscent of a T-rex's.

[icon_uk]

So is Captain W's weapon a Sith lightsaber stacked on top of another Sith lightsaber?

[cypherfdp]

It looks like an inverse Darth Maul, not sure about the logistics on that one.

[captainbellman]

I think they may have made the extra handle in response to people pointing out the obvious, and then added the "Darth Maul wants his lightsaber back" in a later issue out of a generally tired "Fuck it, they're onto us" attitude.

[cyberghostface]

I think including the actual President in stuff like this just serves to date the story with a few exceptions like Watchmen.

[lb_lee]

Yeah. I mean, no lie, I got a kick out of Reagan appearing in Booster Gold's entrance, but that's because it was shamelessly ridiculous and the president couldn't even get Booster's name right. But in that case, the massive datedness of it is part of what makes it so funny.

It's like what they say about pop culture references--it doesn't make you feel up-to-date, it just makes you feel very dated very quickly.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Are you saying that you would not, in fact, let the dogs out?

[lb_lee]

Well, schizzle my nizzle!

[laughing_tree]

Yeah, but what's wrong with feeling of a specific time and place? At the rate mobile tech is progressing, pretty much any story set "now" feels dated in a few years anyway.

Like Brian K. Vaughan said in his recent Reddit AMA, "Everything will eventually feel dated, so why not try to write about the time you were lucky enough to be born in as specifically as possible?"

[lb_lee]

There's a difference between being set in a specific time and place, and feeling woefully dated. It depends on how much you as the creator rely on your AUDIENCE also being from that time and place to know wtf you're going on about.

Like, let's take Roald Dahl for instance, just because I figure odds are decent you and I have both read something by him. A number of his books--Matilda, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the BFG--have a pretty specific setting. It's a time when TVs are a thing, VCRs and video games aren't, so kinda 70s-ish, and usually in England or Norway.

I did not exist in the 70s, and have never been to England OR Norway. But I'm able to follow Dahl's writing, because it generally doesn't require outside knowledge. The work doesn't feel dated, because even forty, fifty years later, children are able to read his books and get what he's talking about. His jokes have a pretty far-reaching appeal--children one-upping adults, mocking people in authority, that kind of thing. You don't have to be from the 70s to appreciate that. But if he suddenly had a joke that relied on the reader recognizing one of the English MPs from the time, that would suddenly be a lot less likely to carry through. THAT would feel dated.

Going back to the "who let the dogs out" joke the commenter above gave, the reason that would fall flat is because unless you actually were around at that time, you would have no idea what it even means. It's lazy. It's me, the creator, making a joke KNOWING that the audience won't get it unless they're from the same demographic as me, and in my opinion, that makes me a little bit insufferable to anyone who isn't in on the joke.

And I admit, Vaughn's pop culture references are part of what drove me out of his work. Sometimes it works, but other times it drove me so crazy I actually couldn't read his work. Sorry Vaughn, you and me gonna have to disagree.

[laughing_tree]

Yeah, but how does depicting the U.S. president as Bush instead of a generic middle-aged guy make it less comprehensible to future readers?

[lb_lee]

Point taken. I guess it felt weird to me just because... I dunno, combining a reviled US president with superhero imagery causes a kind of reality dissonance in me, since there are very weird, not-our-world things happening, but it seems like it's trying to be based in a very specific setting with our very real president.

*shrug* You got me though, I guess my dislike of it isn't solely the 'dated' thing.

[reveen]

I wouldn't say Watchmen is dated. Enough time has passed that the era that it takes place in is history and Americana.

This is totes dated though, the ongoing drama with middle east foreign policy and the government makes potshots at Bush just groan worthy.

[cyberghostface]

Well that's what I meant, Watchmen is one of the few exceptions to the rule.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Well, Watchmen is a stand alone story set during the period of the time. It doesn't have to stand current, really.

[silverhammerman]

Plus, since it's an alternate history, the references actually serve a purpose to world building, as they flesh out the history and culture.

[trooper924]

The reason it worked in Watchmen is because while it had an actual president, it wasn't the sitting president, thus reinforcing that Watchmen is an alternate universe.

[katefan]

"The reason it worked in Watchmen is because while it had an actual president, it wasn't the sitting president, thus reinforcing that Watchmen is an alternate universe."

Well said.

[erikred]

Well, sure, but that's also the point. Millar's entire run on the Ultimates was supposed to be a critique of the Neocon jingoism of the early 2000s*. It most certainly would not have worked if it had featured only the back of a president's head or a random old white dude president or one of those other weird stand-ins comics use for these things. It was specifically and intentionally lampooning W, so it had to be him.

* Note: I'm not saying it succeeded as a critique. Or a comic. Although it was perversely fun to read at the time. To borrow from a rando on a comics forum: "It’s probably the last Mark Millar comic I was able to enjoy without vomiting up qualifiers...."

[captainbellman]

Also, it's only just occurred to me how fixated Millar is on the idea that, since the rank is above Captain, a character calling themselves the Colonel or Colonel Something-Or-Other must necessarily be trying to be superior Captain American.

He's previously featured a Colonel America in the Zombieverse, and had a "Colonel America" in his weird X-Men oneshot who is apparently "what Captain America will be when he's done kissing babies", whatever that means.

[jlbarnett]

I believe the phrase was "follows orders and keeps away from the wrong types of women," which just means staying out of trouble

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

"Also, it's only just occurred to me how fixated Millar is on the idea that, since the rank is above Captain, a character calling themselves the Colonel or Colonel Something-Or-Other must necessarily be trying to be superior Captain American."

Eh, it's basic Millar, really. He finds something popular, adds something superficial or 'important' and then presents it as better.

That's how the Scorpion wound up wearing Venom's suit, Master of Doom and Tony's Brother was never seen before or since.