Batgirl #49

[kojiro]

Comments

[redmagpie]

hehheh awesome

[locuatico]

so wait, did they undone the wheelchair, too? or only that it was because Joker?

[chalicother]

I see the wheelchair, but I have no idea what is going on. Then again I never read the Killing Joke, the closet I have seen is the scene reenactment in Arkham Knight.

[sagrada]

I LOVE Fugue's design, it's brilliant. Simple and identifiable and mysteeeeerioooouuuussss. DC needs more looks like that, especially these days. They do better with simple.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Reminds me a little bit of Spellbinder, for some reason.

[janegray]

I'm not sure how I feel about this...

On the one hand, The Killing Joke treated Barbara horribly.

On the other hand, I never liked Babs!Batgirl (no, never. Not in the comics, not in BTAS), whereas I liked Oracle and Steph!Batgirl a lot so I'm sad that they are gone.

[redmagpie]

Likewise in terms of the Oracle and Steph!Batgirl feelings but I don't really think that getting rid of TKJ is a bad thing since they were both already gone.

Mod Note!

[icon_uk]

Your image above the cut is larger than scans_daily rules permit.

Please either reduce the size of the image to no larger than 400 x 300 pixels, or put it behind a cut.

Many thanks

[simiansyndicate]

So the scans aren't really making it terribly clear to me: how does this un-do TKJ and Babs being in a chair?

[locuatico]

implanted memories.

[kates]

It's because of the cyclical nature of comics and the iconic (for better or for worse) status of TKJ that I can't help but look at this and go "awesome! have fun watching the next creative team retcon your retcon!" It's a grand idea but I doubt it'll stick.

[locuatico]

or maybe they bring Back Oracle in Rebirth like they did with Supes after covnergence.

[bradygirl_12]

They got rid of TKJ? *applauds*

[cyberghostface]

I'm sure DC will allow one of the most iconic Batman comics ever written to be wiped out of continuity by an issue that will be forgotten within a year. Especially with DC making an R-rated adaptation with Conroy and Hamill.

[redmagpie]

I mean the comic itself was originally not supposed to be in continuity and it doesn't really matter if this issue is forgotten or not. This is now true for THIS version of Babs, and fans who hate how that horrible story treated her can now think of it as an elseworld.

[palgrave_goldenrod]

Does it really matter if they do, though? I mean, it's iconic whether or not it's in continuity.

So it's an imaginary story... but then, aren't they all?

[lordultimus]

I don’t expect it to last. I can’t imagine DC Comics will every give up the chance to show Barbara being shot again and again and photographed half naked on the floor bleeding. Especially with the animated film version out this summer. There are too many people at DC Comics who will have to have Alan Moore’s book pulled from their cold dead hands.

[reveen]

I don't think it really matters though. At the end of the day Barbara is still out of the wheelchair, which makes the Killing Joke functionally irrelevant to the current DC universe, which is something DC did themselves.

Unless they decide to put her back in the chair, but barring just jettisoning all of Nu-52 Batgirl out of continuity the new explanation for putting her back in the chair is bound to be just as stupid as how they took her out of it.

[coldfury]

I have nothing against this run.

But this issue is a perfect example as to why I'm just passing on DC right now. I have no problem with things having to line up perfectly, I might grumble when things make absolutely no sense (Old Steve & Superior Tony timeline, I'm looking at you.), but I'm a big boy, I can deal.

But this appears to retcon out Gail's run? Is James Jr not a bad guy any more? Was Barbara never in a wheelchair? This is such a haphazard and silly way to hit a reset button on a character in shared universe.

I know DC is currently taking a 'continuity 2nd' approach with storytelling, but I think it's just not for me. I want my shared universes to be shared. Maybe not lockstep, but at least in the neighborhood of lining up with each other.

"this appears to retcon out Gail's run"? Not much moreso than the creative team change itself did

[chortles81]

And as silverhammerman pointed out, this creative team's introductory arc ran on the basis of Barbara having been in a wheelchair... so it looks to me like they were deliberately ambiguous about which memories were implanted other than "obvious fakes" such as Gordon's death (or still having most of his hair and the mustache) or Bruce's exposure.

[laughing_tree]

Folks, before jumping the gun, consider what Cameron Stewart's been saying about this scene, on his Twitter feed:

One of the things we intended for this issue was for it to be read in several ways, depending on your own interpretation and/or preference.

I believe that an individual’s subjective interpretation of a work of art can matter as much as the artist’s intent.

What does an image mean to you specifically? How do you interpret it based on your own set of experiences? There’s no right or wrong answer.

This is, I think, an unusual concept for the superhero genre, where material is often strictly deemed canonical or “real,” or not.

There’s no right, and no wrong, way to read that page. It is what it is to you. We deliberately set it up that way.

If you want to read it as retcon, you’re welcome & encouraged to do so. If you want the timeline as-is, you are also encouraged to do so.

Your own personal “truth” in this story is what we want you to take from it. How you read that page is how it is.

Finally, and fittingly, a quote from Alan Moore:
“This is an imaginary story….aren’t they all?”

[lucean]

Thanks for that addition, it does give a lot of insight in to the scene.

I guess there could be a counter-argument there that future writers have to make decisions concerning the character and her past, so they can't operate on such a questionable approach, but I guess that is their burden bear when it comes around.

[silverhammerman]

Given how critical perspectives on The Killing Joke have changed in the past few years, I'm pretty okay with the idea of retconning it in some way, and I get why they'd want to explicitly overrule it, but the execution here is a little weird.

Like, we know that Barbara Gordon was definitively and canonically in a wheelchair, based on plot points from this very run, so that bit's not gone. All that's changed is the exact circumstances of how she got there, and given how many reboots have come between TKJ and now, I feel like they could have shown or alluded to a new take on it without bothering to offer a justification.

[locuatico]

The implication i got is that Barbara was definitely on a wheelchair, but that the cause was different than originally tought.

[lb_lee]

I am REALLY not up on Barbara's history, so have no dog in the continuity fight. I just REALLY love that big nesting circles page and it's working with panels and speech bubbles. UUUUUGH IT MAKES ME HAPPY.

[blueprintstyles]

I don't think the killing joke was written out I think it's just one of the memories that was temporarily altered. This writing team gets flak from time to time so I think they're just screwing with us a little.

[starwolf_oakley]

Pre-Crisis references were rather common in the Superman titles. Brianiac's ship in PANIC IN THE SKY looked like the full robot Brainiac head from the early 1980s, and Brainiac said the design came to him IN a dream. A "mindscape" story had the Pre-Crisis giant key for the Fortress of Solitude. The Daily Star was the oldest newspaper in Metropolis.

Batman rarely had Pre-Crisis references, the only exception was Bat man wondering if Lew Moxon had a connection to the death of the Waynes.

So, we can have Pre-Flashpoint references, I think. It won't break anything.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

Wasn't Barbara older in The Killing Joke than she's being portrayed now? Maybe it could turn out to be a "hasn't happened yet" sort of thing?