Of Spiders and Civil Wars (Spider-Man #8 and Civil War II: Amazing Spider-Man #4)

[superboyprime]

After the Hawkeye incident:

Comments

[reveen]

Welp, Ms. Marvel's traumatized. The lack of that was fun while it I guess.

[starwolf_oakley]

And she's blaming Carol as well, more than blaming Hawkeye (who did it) or Bruce (who told Clint to do it and gave him the arrowhead). Well, as long as she doesn't go too Batman over the whole thing.

"You can't trust people, they'll only hurt you. So you'd better be ready to hurt them first. I'm Batman."

[shadowpsykie]

Except all of this IS on Carol. It was her acting on her intelligence with Ulysses without seeking any corroboration. And her actions unknowingly as they might have been, cause the event she was trying to prevent.

[yvonmukluk]

So much for 'both sides have a point this time, no really we swear!'. It's line up to dump on Carol Danvers o'clock right now.

[owlbrigade1]

What are you trying to tell him, Peter? Is there something that comes with power, perchance?

Carol continues to be taking the same pills Maria Hill has been, when doing a super-welfare check she makes sure everyone is all keyed up and scared going in because that never ends with hasty panicked decisions.

[thehood]

Though even Maria Hill thinks she's going to far.

[owlbrigade1]

That ought to be a red flag right there.

[junipepper]

That's a screaming crimson, giant waving banner, is what that is.

[beyondthefringe]

No...Thunderbolt Ross is the crimson one. Banner's the green one. :)

[liliaeth]

Peter's actually right where research is concerned. You can often learn as much from a failed experiment, as from a succesful one. It also keeps the people working for you happier when it doesn'tl look like projects are approved on a random basis

[owlbrigade1]

Oh utterly agreed, it is just kinda fun watching them try to give the "with great power comes great responsibility" speech without it looking like they are giving the "with great power comes great responsibility" speech. The way they sort of dance around it, almost afraid of it. Just let him say it.

[starwolf_oakley]

Power and responsibility are vague terms. Tony Stark and Carol Danvers think they are behaving respnsibly, and yet James Rhodes and Bruce Banner are dead.

[monsieur_safior]

Hopefully, with the poor sale, Marvel will learn then people are tired of event comics with heroes vs heores & the movie synergie, and this awfull sequel to civil war will be the last event comcis for a long time.

[mizerous]

THE MONEY TRAIN NEVER ENDS!

[owlbrigade1]

Money from comics is irrelevant to Disney (and to a lesser extent Warners) because as long as they sell one single copy then they have maintained the copyrights for the merch. It is all about generating merch profits now. That is all the comics exist for, to be an IP rights farm.

[wizardru]

What poor sales are you referring to? Civil War II is selling pretty well, afaict. If anything, this summer has proven that the old strategies still work: soft reboots, events and entire continuity reboots all generate good sales. Civil War II has been Marvel's best selling title for the last two months (a trend likely to be reflected in August sales as well).

Also, the only movie synergy here is the name and historically, the movies have had very little impact on sales in the direct market. There are many accounts of stores NOT seeing any real bumps in sales other than folks walking in, asking for one comic and never coming back.

June:
1 Civil War II 1 $5.99 Marvel 381,737
2 Batman 1* $2.99 DC 280,360
3 Batman Rebirth 1* $2.99 DC 199,807
4 Star Wars Han Solo 1 $3.99 Marvel 152,596
5 Civil War II 2 $4.99 Marvel 148,403

July:
Comic-book Title Issue Price Publisher Est. sales
1 Justice League 1* $2.99 DC 209,187
2 Justice League Rebirth 1* $2.99 DC 177,638
3 Batman 2* $2.99 DC 177,105
4 Civil War II 3 $4.99 Marvel 176,876
5 Batman 3* $2.99 DC 168,939
6 Nightwing Rebirth 1* $2.99 DC 127,846
7 Civil War II 4 $4.99 Marvel 126,865

[monsieur_safior]

The sale of august and debut spetember, none of them have marvel title in the top ten and it will likely continue in the next month.

[wizardru]

I think you're confusing sales ranking with poor sales, which are not the same thing. DC's numbers are way up due to the Rebirth launches, with lots of new number ones. They had 16 titles ship over 100,000 copies (which are returnable, it should be noted) with a lower cover price than Civil War II, which is retailing for $4.99 compared to DC's $2.99 titles. Further, consider that they also pushed an issue from August to September and then announced they were adding an eighth issue.

In other words, DC doing really well with Rebirth does not suddenly make Civil War II a failure, nor will it convince Marvel to not do future events. Quite the opposite, in fact.

[monsieur_safior]

...

Thats a bummers.

[starwolf_oakley]

"Yeah, I didn't know that burglar guy was going to hurt anyone, much less kill my uncle, but hey, a life-long emotionally stunting guilt complex anyway!"

Personal responsibility is weird, especially in CIVIL WAR II. Tony is angry at Carol and Ulysses instead of Thanos or Clint or even Bruce (who gave the arrowhead to Clint).

[beoweasel]

Because if she did THAT it would impede the conflict the writers are trying to force.

[mrstatham]

Sorry Tony, you are in the single worst (should be best) position in terms of ranting at someone about having a hitlist. Or are we meant to forget the lives ruined the last time he fronted a government operation?

[beoweasel]

"It would eliminate mistakes, and in science, mistakes are how you learn."

What. WHAT.

Oh no, we certainly can't use Ulysses' powers to predict what medical science research would work best and avoid wasting time and resources on the ones that will fail! Because we need to learn mistakes!

ANOTHER THING, saying that it's a bad idea by only pursuing lines of research that will work, because it'll create "consequences you didn't think of" is utterly asinine BECAUSE ULYSSES CAN PREDICT THE FUCKING FUTURE!

[laughing_tree]

Uh, no, he gets glimpses of the future, snapshots. Unless he seriously amps up his abilities somehow, there's still plenty of stuff he's going to miss. Like, say, the deaths of an armored dude and a green guy. We could say the entire event revolves around those two unforeseen consequences.

[cainofdreaming]

Yeah, in a world full of Mules psychohistory is going to end up misfiring. A lot.

[liliaeth]

an sometimes a projects' failure can lead to clues leading to succes later on.

[laughing_tree]

It's all so weird. Back when I posted the scene of Carol disavowing responsibility for what Hawkeye did, all the comments were along the lines of "Eff off, Carol!" Now that we have a scene of someone holding Carol responsible, the response is, "Why are you blaming her??"

Why, it's almost as if people are just looking for things to complain about.

[luxshine]

But it's Tony. People here tend to hate Tony lately (here and in tumblr, I've noticed), and not consider that yes, Tony made a TON of mistakes in Civil War I, but a he is not that man anymore -literally, his brain was rebooted- and that he CAN learn from his mistakes. Hence why he is now the voice of reason.

(I still blame Carol for Bruce's death, btw. She was the one who created the situation that made Clint break his life long aversion to killing when Bruce was not being a threat to anyone -but being threatened by every hero in the planet)

[burkeonthesly]

How can Tony not be that man anymore via brain reboot and learn from his mistakes at the same time?

[luxshine]

Because he read what happened, and saw how horrible it was and vowed not to go the same path.

Same way we learn from other people's mistakes.

[scorntx]

Y'know... under any other writer, I'd think Sam saying that the Hulk is scary would be a continuity nod to that time the Inverted Hulk (I'm not calling it by That Name) gave Sam a nasty concussion and smashed his helmet.

But this is Bendis.