Wonder Woman Origin

[rickperry]

After reading Wonder Woman #4/5 I'm a little confused about where this origin story is going.



With the rebirth issue we see Diana with confused memories which seems to be from pre-crisis, post-crisis and 52. She smashes a mirror and tries to get to Themyscira and fails. The costume shown in the panels seems to be what she has debuted in when returning Steve to mans world but where are they going with the previous incarnation memories? Can someone explain if they understand.

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

what's not to understand?

Rucka is trying to reconcile past iterations of Diana (mainly from what he wrote, what came after, and the new 52, and solidify it. Rather than throw it all out (it wouldn't make sense given the new 52) since there was some good stuff that came about. but he is trying to throw out all the stuff that just didn't work.

[rickperry]

I guess I am just confused as to what is history and what isn't at this point. 52 run I'm guessing is out of the picture.

[shadowpsykie]

that's the entire point. We don't know yet. that is the point of this new origin story. to define WHAT her origin story is. Is she a daughter of Zeus? Daughter of Clay? is she some how both? is she the new god of war? was she ever? If she is what happened to the other gods?

[rickperry]

Yeah I suppose so, maybe I'm just jumpin the gun too quick! enjoying the two stories though.

[thatnickguy]

As long as they bring back her born-from-clay origin, I'm good.

I hope "born of clay" is a euphemism....

[7dialsmystery]

...for parthenogenesis.

[monsieur_safior]

With the help of Zeus.

[thatnickguy]

Still better than the "Zeus knocked up your mom" origin that Nu52 gave us.

[monsieur_safior]

I think it was bold to add a male character to the creation of WW and Hypoleta deserve a sexual life.

[bruinsfan]

Yes, there's such a shortage of formative father figures in super hero origins. So very brave of them to go against the grain by adding one of those controversial rarities to Diana's and protect her from the repetitive cliche of being an iconic comic character whose background and significance derive mostly from women.

[beyondthefringe]

Actually, they really did go against the grain by having Zeus be a LIVING father figure.

(Thomas Wayne, Richard Parker, Ben Parker, Howard Stark, Jor-El, Zor-El, Martin Jordan, Brian Banner, and Jack Murdock all wave forlornly from their table in the back...)

But no, seriously, I know what you mean. She was a character born of two mothers--Hippolyta and... was it Aphrodite who originally brought her to life? I know it says "the Greek gods" but I remember at one point they specifically said it was one of the goddesses--anyway, she didn't have a traditional father and that was okay.

[icon_uk]

I'm not sure that the "life spark/transformation" was directly attributed to one deity, but a number of them blessed the resulting child.

Perez amended to that to make it a convocation of goddesses after Artemis plan to create a new race of beings (with Ares demurring) was refused by Zeus and who together utilised souls of murdered women that had been kept for a special predestined purpose. Artemis, Athena, Aphrodite, Demter and Hestia were repsonsible.

Our esteemed member Bluefall made a great post on the topic some years back.

https://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/957548.html

[timefire]

"Actually, they really did go against the grain by having Zeus be a LIVING father figure"

Although given that Azzarello's run literally begins with Zeus (apparently) deader than a doornail and that it wasn't really fixed until the end of his run, it's not like they didn't get their "Dead Parental Figure" cake and eat it too :P

[monsieur_safior]

Yep add a men to the origin of Wonder Woman in particular is very bold.

[locuatico]

So was having bat girl and batman have sex in the animated killing joke movie. Bold=/= not stupid.

[monsieur_safior]

I don't see the correlation.

[locuatico]

that both were bad writing?

[monsieur_safior]

Your little opinion then Azarello run is bad written.

[locuatico]

....yeah? I have been pretty open that his take on the character is garbage in my opinion.

[mesmiranda]

Why does Wonder Woman need a man in her backstory? I mean that as a genuine question: what benefit does having Zeus in her backstory add to her as a character?

(As an aside note, reading your other comments, I am starting to get the impression scans_daily miiiight not be the place for you.)

[monsieur_safior]

Just say I'm homopobic and sexist, instead of being vague.

No I think is tight more on her character who want to recontnect the amazone with the other world.

[mesmiranda]

I'm asking a serious, genuine, 100% authentic question. Why does she need to have Zeus or any guy as part of her origin story?

[monsieur_safior]

i'm just say it, did you read ?

[mesmiranda]

To connect with the outside world? But why? Diana's big shtick--especially now that her movie's coming up--is that she's a fish out of water like Clark, coming from an isolated community of women/a far-off planet. She gets all her powers and moral/philosophical outlook settled just fine without Zeus. I'm really not seeing the necessity.

[monsieur_safior]

Well Zeus is not really aquired but it give her more motive to do so.

I must admit I have some difficulty to expose my tought in english.

[mesmiranda]

J'ai déjà supposé que votre langue maternelle n'etait pas anglais, monsieur, mais dites-moi si j'ai tort.

"Wanting to go out and explore the world and fight injustice" is enough of a motive without involving daddy drama. It's not required, like you said, and honestly I'm bored enough with father issues without tacking them onto a notably female-rooted and female-centric superheroine.

[monsieur_safior]

Oui je suis, bon je vais espérer que tu comprenne ce que je m’apprête à énoncer.

Je suis content qu'il est rajouter un père pour Wondy car vu que c'est une icône féministe je trouver dommage de n'accès se message que sur les femmes même si elles sont toujours le cœur de cette idée.

Au vu de ce statue il est normal qu'elle soit lié à un ou plusieurs personnage masculin, ça limite moins le message et permet de faire comprendre que son message est universelle.

Après je demande pas qu'elle soit très proche de son père ou que cela devienne une figure centrale de la vie de WW, mais le fait qu'elle est un père comme tout le monde rend le personnage plus "humains".

[junipepper]

"Elle est un père?" Un petit typo, je pense.

[monsieur_safior]

Oublier un a c'est vrai.

[mesmiranda]

Je suis content qu'il est rajouter un père pour Wondy car vu que c'est une icône féministe je trouver dommage de n'accès se message que sur les femmes même si elles sont toujours le cœur de cette idée.

Mais si je vous comprends bien, vous disez que les gars ne pouvant pas rapporter à Diana, ou les histoires de Wonder Woman, parce qu'il n'y a pas un homme là-dedans, et ça, ça c'est... concernant. Un homme ne peut pas se rapporter à une femme, pas de tout?

[monsieur_safior]

Disont que ça aide.

Et puis ne me vouvoie pas ça en se fait pas sur le net.

[mesmiranda]

Pourquoi? Parce qu'elle a des seins?

Voyons, on a toujours dit aux femmes qu'elles doivent rapporter aux hommes dans les livres, dans les films, au télévision, mais quand il est dans l'autre sens, soudainement c'est "ces femmes, quelle créatures étrange et mystérieuse!" Nous pouvons nous voir en Superman, ou Batman. Ils sont universels. Mais pas les super-héroïnes--et pourquoi?

On m'a toujours enseigné à utiliser 'tu' avec la famille ou les amis.

[monsieur_safior]

Non parce qu'elle est née à partir de boue.

[mesmiranda]

Pffft. :)

Mais vraiment, elle a déjà une mère, des sœurs, des amis--et puis elle fait des amis avec les hommes et les femmes hors de l'île. Il y a beaucoup des gens qui n'ont pas un père, et ils se entendent très bien.

[monsieur_safior]

Oui c'est aussi mon cas et je m'en plain pas.

C'est que tout les personnage existant donné un Père à WW est osé.

[locuatico]

Why would she need that? Said world doesn't really give a crap about Zeus anymore.

[lego_joker]

Wasn't Hermes (almost certainly the nicest male Olympian, mythologically speaking) already involved in Perez's version of WW's origin?

[bruinsfan]

Yes, he blessed her with speed and the power of flight.

[skjam]

It isn't the first time--in the early Silver Age, Kanigher gave Diana a (human, probably) father who she had never met and was presumably still alive. Hippolyta was seen pining for him from time to time, but Diana never bothered looking for him--never giving a reason why, but she just didn't seem interested in him beyond "some guy my mother knew."

[janegray]

Can't comment on the story since I haven't been reading it (I plan on picking the TPB when it comes out). But I really, really, really love that costume :DDD

[rickperry]

The origin story one or the current one? They are quite similar.

[janegray]

Isn't the current one her origin story?

[kamino_neko]

There's two stories alternating. One set in the present (involving Cheetah) in the odd numbered issues, one revealing her new origin in the even numbered issues.

I'm not sure there's any differences in what she's wearing in the two stories that aren't attributable to the different artists. Some slight differences in the saturation of the reds, and the detailing, but I wouldn't think they're working from different iterations of the design, just that Scott's got a lighter hand than Sharp, and Faraldo and Martin have different eyes for colour.

[janegray]

I see! I didn't know, thanks for the info :)

I was referring to the costume in this page:

http://i.imgur.com/EVYMFRV.jpg

The one detail I'd change is that I think it would look cooler if the eagle's wings were the top of her bra, rather than a band across her breasts. But really, even as it is, it's the second best version of her costume I've ever seen. Really awesome.

(The best version, imo, is the Earth Two version here: http://www.toyarena.com/images/761941319902a.jpg http://www.oafe.net/yo/art/dcdnew52e2ww2.jpg)

[long_silence]

I've been enjoying the Year One storyline so far. I even like that Diana wasn't born with the gifts the Gods gave her since I always thought it gave her an unfair advantage in the Contest.

I'm just not sure how to feel about Hera and Hephaestus now being among the patrons who give Diana her gifts.

[pzychobatz]

I just know that I really love this artwork.

[doodleboy]

Well Greg Rucka finally gets to tell his Earth One story so there's that (or at least the first issue was definitely the scene he described when he talked about that).

And although it not shown in these pages I like how Nicola Scott gives Wonder Woman the dorkiest smile.

[arthur_wynne]

When I read the word "patron" being used by Hippolyta to refer to the Amazons' protector and benefactor deities, I was surprised at how very jarring that felt given the etymology and the gendered origin of the word, all the more so when the dialogue kept repeating it.

On reflection this seems silly on multiple levels. For one, we're reading a comic in English, not in idiomatic Amazonian. For another, I don't really even want the Amazon culture to be so demonstratively focused on gender that there are no words for a male protector or authority figure.That feels like it reduces them to a shallow caricature, a 21st (or worse, 20th) century institutional patriarchy with the genders flipped is exactly what I don't want the Amazons to be.

But still... it feels like Amazon thought really ought to be female-default, y'know? It's hard to get that across in a way that sounds natural to readers, because words like "matron" that could be used instead have very different connotations to us and it makes the word choice that should be incidental and natural seem very deliberate and political -and that takes you out of the dialogue. And yet... Isn't that difference in connotations of otherwise synonymous gendered language part of what the Amazons exist to critique in the first place? And yet. And yet. And yet.

To me this is really hard to grapple with, but also very interesting. How can you keep Amazon culture distinctive and central to their portrayal and still slip it in "under the radar?" Is that even what the objective should be? Am I making mountains out of molehills?

Thoughts?