Star Trek Voyager fan comic

[starwolf_oakley]

Here's a fun Star Trek Voyager fan comic from the year 2000 It has fun at Voyager's expense, as well as the Prime Directive in the first Star Trek series.






Some Star Trek fans say the Prime Directive has self-defense caveats and stipulations, explaining why Jim Kirk wasn't *quite* the maverick and renegade he appeared to be.

It's been a while since I've seen Voyager's Q episodes. They were done because Kate Mulgrew and John DeLancie are friends in real life.

Comments

[q99]

Nowadays I hold the view that if you cut out the chaff, you can get a darn good Trek show out of Voyager's good bits.

And yea, the Prime Directive is... not always handled well. Some writers take it as absolute to the point of absurdity and/or an unmovable moral pole rather than a rule.

-It's been a while since I've seen Voyager's Q episodes. They were done because Kate Mulgrew and John DeLancie are friends in real life.-

They were fun :)

[icon_uk]

I tend to be less generous as regards Voyager.

The core concept was great, but the rigid adherence to Starfleet protocol and tech cut most of the interesting stuff out from the start, making it just a bland Trek series (Especially coming after the very different DS9)

I wanted to see the ship evolve and adapt as, lacking Federation equipment, they bartered and traded for alien tech to replace and enhance their capabilities. You should have been able to tell the Season by looking at what had changed on the Bridge tech alone.

They should have been actively recruiting new crewmembers as they went from alien races as curious to see the Alpha Quadrant as the current crew were to get home. Crewmembers leaving because they've found planets they were happy on.

The core Bridge crew were the dullest beings in Starfleet, Tuvok, Chakotay, Paris and Kim don't have a personality between them.

Neelix.... UGH! Cutesy alien comedy-relief like that sets my teeth on edge, for all they tried to give him some tragic backstory (and Ethan Phillips seemed to try his best with that).

Kes, what a complete waste of a potentially interesting alien species. Aside from the awful "I'm in my mating state now" bit, they did nothing at all with her accelarated lifespan concept.

Janeway is so ethically dubious in her actions that her promotion to Starfleet Admiral was, based on other holders of that rank, pretty much inevitable.

I liked the Doctor, especially once the rest of the crew acknowledged that he was a self aware entity, though again, it would appear that Starfleet's treatment of AI's was appalling.

So if the crew had consisted of the EMH, Seven of Nine (Though not necessarily in the spray on tin foil outfit), a crew of interesting alien species, and possibly Naomi Wildman (The poor kid, stuck amongst THIS bunch) I'd have enjoyed it more.

[q99]

Oh, it was still a waste of potential storyarc potential, it didn't really have much reason to be in the Delta Quadrant truth be told, but 'just another Trek series' is still a pretty good thing with some darn good episodes in there.

Janeway's ethics shifted episode to episode. In the good ones, she's compassionate and reasonable. When the writer had an odd sense of what was right, though, so did she.

[kamino_neko]

When the writer had an odd sense of what was right, though, so did she.

*mutters about Tuvix*

[icon_uk]

I nearly quoted the Tuvix example myself.

[kamino_neko]

So glad to find someone who agrees with me on that one. v_v

[jlbarnett]

I felt like what happened with Tuvix was clearly the right thing. Neither Tuvok or Neelix would have wanted to exist like that.

Imagine if "good" and "evil" Kirk had wanted to stay separate in TOS? Would you be in favor of allowing them too?

[icon_uk]

Tuvix was a viable, valid, self aware entity in his own right with the knowledge and skills of both fused into a new entity, an excellent chief tactical officer and "an able advisor, who skillfully uses humor to make his points. Would either Tuvok or Neelix have wanted to live at the cost of the life of an innocent?

The fact the EMH, governed by ethical processes and rules refused to perform the split should have given Janeaway more pause, and she admitted she was driven by wanting Tuvok back and apparently sod the innocent Tuvix's life.

AFAIK Good and Evil Kirk couldn't co-exist because neither was viable entity in their own right, both were weakening because of the split state. Tuvix was a perfectly viable entity.

[laughing_tree]

If a person has a split personality, do they have the right to 'cure' themselves and get rid of it? (Think Two-Face and Harvey Dent.) After all, you could make the same argument in such a situation about being viable.

Now, I'm on the "Janeway was wrong" side, but I think it's a great episode precisely because it provokes the arguments we're seeing in this thread. To this very day, so many years after it aired, every time I see the episode get brought up on a Trek forum, vigorous debate erupts. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single other Trek episode for which that's the case.

I'm a fan of the episode because it's so easy to imagine a lesser version of the story that takes the easy way out, the version that would appear in nineteen out of twenty sci-fi dramas: Where Tuvix makes the noble decision to self-sacrifice, thus circumventing having to deal with the ethical dilemma. And it boggles my mind that it was VOYAGER of all shows -- a play-it-safe series that otherwise did always take the easy way out -- that produced such bold storytelling.

[kamino_neko]

Enterprise did something similar with Sim. (... Uh, no pun intended.)

Which was a much better episode, doing a much better job of presenting what's happening as a sucky situation where every possible outcome fucks over someone who doesn't deserve it, and better justifying why Trip should be prioritized over Sim.

[laughing_tree]

I've only seen parts of that episode, so I can't opine about its overall quality, but it seems like it does take the easy way I out I mentioned, having Sim ultimately choose to sacrifice his life.

[kamino_neko]

See, calling that the 'easy way out' is silly.

Similitude treated Sim as a real person, and his acceptance of the fact that he was going to be sacrificed (Archer had already decided that Trip took priority, and Sim's choice is 'not running away to spend the rest of his short life alone in a shuttle'), as, at best, bittersweet, and a decision that might not have been made under different circumstances. Sim pleading for his life is given actual weight. Sim's life carries through the series in minor ways, and the entire crew mourns him (even if they're past it by the next episode) at the end of the episode (the episode looping around to the cold open, which originally appears to be Trip's funeral).

This doesn't happen with Tuvix. Janeway shows some regret for the supposed necessity of killing Tuvix (although the episode does its damnedest to present it as anything other than that), everyone else is just happy to have Tuvok and Neelix back, and neither of them shows any regret that their resurrections came at the cost of Tuvix's life.

[laughing_tree]

But here's the thing: How would any of those story strengths be negated if Sim had remained unwilling to sacrifice himself? That's the specific plotting choice I'm discussing here, not whether the episode was referenced again in later episodes or tone or anything else.

I call it taking the easy way out because it's like a reverse version of when the hero of a story refuses to kill the villain, only for the villain to then get killed by someone/something else. Not that that sort of thing can't be handled well, but on some level it's always a cheat -- a way to have the hero do the hard thing (not give into revenge's temptation) without having to actually deal with the consequences of that decision (the lack of catharsis, the potential danger of the villain's continued existence). It's trying to have the cake ("It's wrong to kill, audience.") and eat it too ("Revel in the villain's untimely demise, audience!").

I prefer my protagonists don't kill, but I also prefer my stories to honestly deal with what that entails, not to use conveniently plotting to sidestep any of its difficulties.

It's a similar thing here. Archer makes a hard call -- the decision to essentially murder an innocent -- but then conveniently doesn't have to actually deal with the repercussions. He gets off easy. The writers get off easy. The easy route.

You mention "In the Pale Moonlight." The power of that episode is in how Sisko, in very un-Trek-like fashion, does *not* unlock some hidden third way that allows him to achieve his goal while and simultaneously remain clean. He has to make his choice between one or the other and live with it. Archer does not have to live with it.

[kamino_neko]

But here's the thing: How would any of those story strengths be negated if Sim had remained unwilling to sacrifice himself?

They wouldn't, but that doesn't make his accepting his fate the 'easy way'.

Archer makes a hard call -- the decision to essentially murder an innocent -- but then conveniently doesn't have to actually deal with the repercussions.

But he does. Sim accepting his fate doesn't change that Archer has to live with doing it. So does Trip. (Phlox would, too, if he weren't Phlox, who's a bit of a 'blue and orange' guy.)

The fact that Sim wasn't calling him a murderer to his face at the end (he does argue strenuously beforehand, and again, was initially planning to flee) doesn't lessen that.

Tuvix, contrarily, despite having Tuvix call her out, does take the easy way out. The episode dehumanizes Tuvix, reduces him to a macguffin, rather than a character. Tuvix pleading for his life is meaningless, because according to the narrative, it isn't his.

To an extent, Similitude does save Archer from real consequences of his actions, but that's a consequence of the format - a one-off episode, rather than a significant part of either Archer's character arc (it's a slightly larger part of Trip's) or the Xindi plot arc it's in the midst of - not the plot. It never actually comes up, later, all the consequences are contained within the episode. Which Tuvix would also suffer from, if the consequences weren't already negated by the handling of the character. (Even In the Pale Moonlight - the franchise's high point for moral ambiguity - suffers from this - while the events echo through, since the plot is successful, it never actually comes up again in the context of Sisko's culpability.)

Again, the entire episode is about the ethical and moral issues raised, where Tuvix is about the technobabble - and, to its credit, loss, but it chose a horrible plot to hang that on, not only because of the whole issue with Tuvix himself, but also because Tuvok and Neelix came back, thus negating the whole thing. The easy way out for Similitude would be trying the life-extending treatment on Sim and finding that not only did it work, faster than expected, it stabilized his DNA so he could donate the brain tissue to Trip without dying. (Even that wouldn't negate the actual discussion of the ethics of Sim being a saviour sibling.)

[laughing_tree]

They wouldn't, but that doesn't make his accepting his fate the 'easy way'.

Not easy for Sim. Easy for the writers.

Which is not to say writing the episode was easy, but that one storytelling choice is. It's the obvious, common out in these "Sophie's Choice"-type sci-fi stories -- one of the parties chooses to sacrifice themselves, so the leads don't *really* have to make a decision. I'm sure we can all think of other examples of such across various series.

Sim accepting his fate doesn't change that Archer has to live with doing it. So does Trip. (Phlox would, too, if he weren't Phlox, who's a bit of a 'blue and orange' guy.)

But what they have to live with, tough as it is, is a hell less of a burden than actually murdering an innocent. Sim's willingness to sacrifice himself is an exoneration, a granting of permission.

Plus, there's the fact that if Sim doesn't go through with it, so many other lives would be endangered as a result. Setting the cost of his continued life so high, in such an unbalanced way, is another way the writing works to make the choice a less contentious one.

Tuvix pleading for his life is meaningless, because according to the narrative, it isn't his.

How well it's executed is subjective, but that is very much not what the narrative is getting at. "So at what point, did he become an individual and not a transporter accident?" " When I'm happy, I laugh. When I'm sad, I cry. When I stub my toe, I yell out in pain. I'm flesh and blood, and I have the right to live." "I am a physician, and a physician must do no harm. I will not take Mister Tuvix's life against his will."

[kamino_neko]

And some further thoughts...

There are three episodes that I can think of, offhand, across all the Star Trek series, that have the captain killing an innocent person - Tuvix, Similitude, and DS9's In the Pale Moonlight.

In In the Pale Moonlight, Sisko is complicit in the murder of a Romulan, in an attempt to manipulate the Romulans into allying with the Federation in the Dominion war, hoping to save trillions of lives. The entirety of the episode is about Sisko compromising his morals, and exploring 'how far is it OK to go in war?'

In Similitude, Archer and Phlox create a clone, deciding to kill him when letting him live becomes a non-viable option, with the intention of saving billions. The entire episode is about the ethics of the situation, and exploring some real world bioethics questions.

In Tuvix, Janeway kills a man, to resurrect two dead crewmen. 'Wait, is this even the right thing to do?' doesn't even come up until the third act, and the story is driven primarily by 'how do we fix this?' and mourning Tuvok and Neelix.

It's probably not coincidental that Tuvix is the only one running with a 100% science fictional premise. (Sim is basically a saviour sibling, with a sci-fi origin, and a complication introduced in the third act.) This would create an even greater remove, and make the moral and ethical issues less obvious.

[starwolf_oakley]

In In the Pale Moonlight, Sisko is complicit in the murder of a Romulan, in an attempt to manipulate the Romulans into allying with the Federation in the Dominion war, hoping to save trillions of lives. The entirety of the episode is about Sisko compromising his morals, and exploring 'how far is it OK to go in war?'

Peter David's short story "Stone Cold Truths" in the "Tales of the Dominion War" anthology revealed "the Sisko Lie" was revealed and another Earth-Romulan War started.

I'll save my "The Romulans are crafty and paranoid, but they aren't idiots" post for another day.

[icon_uk]

If a person has a split personality, do they have the right to 'cure' themselves and get rid of it? (Think Two-Face and Harvey Dent.)

If both personalities are amenable to it, then sure, why not?

And it's not necessar If the components should "cure" themselves, if are able to reach a compromise, then it might be the best solution. Truddi Chase being an apparent real world case where the various people within her cooperated and created a workable combination.

And by viable, I meant not biologically viable rather than psychologically. Good and evil Kirks were both dying because of the split. If they hadn't been re-merged, both would have outright died.

And I do agree that it managed to remain contentious this many years later is a testament to the subject matter.

[q99]

The weird thing is, I could see coming to the 'sacrifice Tuvix to return the other two' option *without* coming across as a total monster. Tuvix is a starfleet officer and, well, the command test *specifically* includes being willing to sacrifice a crew member for the greater good. Sacrificing one crew member to save two... would qualify for that.

Just in a way that treats him as a person! And with deep regret!

I could totally imaging a heartwrenching scene where Janeway, clearly conflicted, orders Tuvix on a 'mission to retrieve two lost crew members.' Promising that though he won't survive he will be remembered. Stuff like that.

Rather than clinically doing so over objections like he doesn't count.

[kamino_neko]

See Similitude for a case of a similar situation being better done.

[q99]

Yea, exactly.

[angry_marmot]

In almost complete agreement about missed potential. "Voyager" had my favorite opening theme and I was looking forward to Lewis-and-Clark-Meet-Xenophon's-Retreat-in-Space, with a drastically aging Kes and other Alpha Quadrant species as their Charbonneau and Sacajawea. Kes's children and grandchildren could stay on as translators-- and how would a mayfly species experience emotional maturation? Love the idea of scavenging parts and a changing ship design, maybe solar sails to replace the warp drive, magnetic catapults to replace the photon torpedoes.

[philippos42]

I disagree with some of that. Paris had a personality. I kind of ended up watching it for him and Torres.

Tuvok wasn't too pleasant, but he at least had a kind of personality.

It was an uneven show, and they probably could have just tossed Chakotay and Kim in an early season for all they were used. Of course, tossing Chakotay could have meant promoting another Maquis, and confronting the crew issues they were avoiding, so given the way they were writing it, it was easier to leave non-entity Chakotay there.

Well. OK, it was kind of a mess. An uneven show, certainly.

[viridian5]

I really hated how quickly and easily the Federation and Maquis crews integrated. One of the things I really enjoyed about Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda later was that the 300-years-out-of-his-time High Guard officer and the group of occasionally criminal scavengers plus a mercenary from contemporary post-Fall of the Commonwealth time butted heads on strategies and goals a lot, even a few seasons in, the way it should be.

[icon_uk]

Paris reformed from his criminal past waaaay too fast. As "bad boys" go, he was somewhere between Jon-Boy Walton, and Richie Cunningham from Happy Days.

I almost mentioned Torres as having a personality, but I was hard pushed to think of very much that wasn't just "somewhat cranky".

[jlbarnett]

his criminal past was kind of based on doing dumb shit more than anything evil

[cainofdreaming]

Kim did get tossed, in a way. And then replaced with a quantum duplicate.

Which amounted to pretty much nothing until STO used it for a mission.

[jlbarnett]

The Maquis half of the crew had basically been waging a war because they'd lost their homes in the Fed, choosing to stay in the Delta Quadrant kind of undercuts tat

It was supposed to be a seventy year trip that we hoped would succeed. Them having to dramatically rework the ship within two or three years kind of undercuts their odds

[icon_uk]

As most of them would not live to see the Alpha Quadrant simply through age, where they had no home waiting for them anyway, it would actually seem more reasonable for some of the wanting to settle (especially after they find out about the complete obliteration of the Maquis). The fact not one single Maquis or Federation member of crew ever chooses to leave because they want to make a new life for themselves in the Delta Quadrant is another lost opportunity.

We reguarly saw every other ship in Starfleet in their own series' stop off for supplies, refitting and upgrades, all of which Voyager was now lacking the resources for (Except, weirdly in terms of shuttlecraft because, thought their replicators were apparently limited, they were able to mass produce shuttlecraft) so them using local materials would be logical and practical especially if they can tade with a species for improved scanners, or a more powerful navigation system, or better shields etc...

And I don't really see what undercuts their trip because they upgrade using alien tech because the alternative is to pointlessly limit themselves. Case in point would be the Vidiian medical scanner that they find in one of the early Phage episodes, which they note is vastly superior to anything the Federation has.... So, now they have one, why did we never see them use it again.

[starwolf_oakley]

The fact not one single Maquis or Federation member of crew ever chooses to leave because they want to make a new life for themselves in the Delta Quadrant is another lost opportunity.

I guess that depends on what they left behind in the Alpha Quadrant.
The start of the episode "Innocence" has a dying Red Shirt named Bennet say he thought he was lucky he hadn't left anyone behind to miss, but now no one would miss him.

Not leaving Voyager for a new life in the Delta Quadrant could have been a matter of loyality to Janeway and/or Chakotay.

[astrakhan42]

Considering this was written years before SF Debris started his Opinionated Voyager Episode Guide, it's pretty impressive that it perfectly matches his versions of the characters.

[icon_uk]

I like rewatchng old TOS episodes and being reminded that Kirk was known in his Academy days for being a no-fun bookworm; No parties, no booze, just study, study, study because he wanted to be the youngest Captain in Starfleet and that pushed all else aside.

Another reason to be unimpressed by the Abram's movie-verse.

[scorntx]

Well, he can't have been all no-fun-ever, if he nearly married that lab technician (who may or may not have been Carol Marcus).
Or that thing with that lawyer he knew...

But it is sad to go from a Kirk who knew what he was doing, who earned that seat to... Pine!Kirk who got the job... because he was standing there when the admiralty were making their decision?

(The Abramsverse is just middling to awful in general.)

[icon_uk]

It was the "He does it because of daddy issues" bit that grated most with me. Original Kirk became a Captain because he WANTED to, because he wanted to explore the stars more than anything, not because he sought his dead dad's approval.

[starwolf_oakley]

Original!Kirk had *some* daddy issues, according to Diane Carey's novel "Best Destiny." That was a follow up to her "Robert April and George Kirk take the NCC-1701 Enterprise out on her maiden voyage" novel "Final Frontier."

[his_spiffynesss]

The biggest flaw of the Abrams Trek movies is their repetitive nature. They always revolve around the same "madman with grudge and massive tech want to destroy the Federation." At least the original Trek movies had a diversity of stories to tell and didn't always need some bad guy to drive the plot.

[scorntx]

Most of the original Trek movies were driven by some villain or other sooner or later.
The only one that really weren't were IV and V (because Sybok and not-God weren't really threatening enough to count as a "bad guy").

(Though I'd argue there's plenty of flaws to go around. But ID's biggest is that the plot is utterly moronic.)

[his_spiffynesss]

There may have been a villain, but there was more diversity of plot through the original movies. I never got the feeling I was watching the same damn story the way the JJTrek does.

[junipepper]

I liked the first reboot film; it had flaws, but it was funny, and it was just "what if everything went differently from the start?"

But when we were coming out of the theater, i was saying, "It feels like a more colorful world this time around," and my husband said, "Probably because we both watched TOS in black and white." Oh, right.

[bradygirl_12]

Yeah, it was fun to see how determined Kirk was to get ahead in his Academy days, though he probably had his side flings that he kept on the downlow. Gary Mitchell was a good companion for him, to help him lighten up, kind of like original Battlestar Galactica's Starbuck for Apollo.

It's like Abrams took the conventional view of Kirk as a chronic womanizer (though I've read an interesting piece that breaks down Kirk's supposed womanizing and comes up with the fact that he probably actually slept with very few women throughout the course of the series, such as Delia from Wink Of An Eye and Miramanee, whom he married. He probably found the perception of a swashbuckling captain useful, but we saw that he didn't take advantage of Eve's offer in Mudd's Women and was careful with 'The Captain's Woman' in Mirror, Mirror, too.

The new version of Kirk didn't come up through the ranks as he gained experience, ogles every woman who walks by like a frat boy planning his next drunken weekend, and doesn't come across as a guy I'd want in charge of something as powerful as a starship.

[icon_uk]

Kirk's advice to Charlie in Charlie X was positively ground breaking for TV at the time.

CHARLIE: What if you care for someone? What do you do?
KIRK: You go slow. You be gentle. I mean, it's not a one-way street, you know, how you feel and that's all. It's how the girl feels, too. Don't press, Charlie. If the girl feels anything for you at all, you'll know it. Do you understand?
CHARLIE: You don't think Janice... you... She could love me!
KIRK: She's not the girl, Charlie. The years are wrong, for one thing, and there are other things.
CHARLIE: She can.
KIRK: No, Charlie.
CHARLIE: She is.
KIRK: No.
CHARLIE: But if I did what you said! If I was gentle!
KIRK: Charlie, there are a million things in this universe you can have and there are a million things you can't have. It's no fun facing that, but that's the way things are.
CHARLIE: Then what am I going to do?
KIRK: Hang on tight and survive. Everybody does.
CHARLIE: You don't.
KIRK: Everybody, Charlie. Me, too.

[starwolf_oakley]

Kirk was more of a flirt than a "player."

And he wasn't heartless either. The framing story in the "Final Fronteir" novel (not the movie) Kirk is at his family farm in Iowa, so wrecked over Edith Keeler's death he's thinking of resigning from Starfleet.

Abrams!Kirk was only put in charge of the Enterprise because anyone else who could had been murdered by Nero.

[cainofdreaming]

A fan comic about Voyager where Janeway and Neelix aren't shot out of a photon torpedo tube sadly misses its potential.

[silicondream]

Personally, I want a comic where Janeway and Paris never stopped being mutant salamanders and just go back on duty that way. While raising their salamander babies.

[icon_uk]

As a sitcom, I'd watch the hell out of it.

"..And lizards make Five"