Uncanny X-Men #15

[history79]

Comments

[cainofdreaming]

Yeah, that sounds right. If you ever need to defeat a team of mutants just give them five minutes to talk among themselves.

[scorntx]

Unless it's a team of teenagers.
Give 'em ten and they'll all probably just drop dead of their own accord.

[cainofdreaming]

And with younger, less established, mutants only about one third of them will be back up within the next five minutes.

[scorntx]

-"The best way to defeat mutants is to let them be."-
An epic burn from Doctor Rappaccini there.
Bet she was sitting on that for years, waiting for the chance to use it.

(Also, is it so wrong to say the art makes Illyana look... kind of adorable? Y'know, for a soulless recreation of a human being brought to life by dark magic.)

[q99]

And, seriously, picking a fight with Mutants *never* works out. Grab Illyana and Kitty Pryde? Pfft, yea, great idea there!

It does help sell her as smart :)

[bruinsfan]

The two of them in particular would be almost impossible to *keep* grabbed, unless your aim is to keep them comatose inside an inhibitor field, in which case what good does having them do you? And there's always a chance that even under those circumstances Illyana could have a nightmare and your secret base would be crawling with summoned demons and OH GOD WE'RE SORRY PLEASE MAKE IT STOP!

[q99]

Yes, good policy, that!

[owlbrigade1]

You call yourselves supervillains... You have Emma Frost, one of the more powerful mutant mindmeddlers who also happens to have the ethical restraints of...uh...she has no ethical restraints about mindmeddling, unconscious and at your mercy and you don't kill her? Jeez, AIM deserves to lose whatever dumb ass conflict they are a part of. Even I would would off Emma (and any other telepath for that matter, but especially Emma Frost) if I found them in that situation. I might just be biased against telepaths, I've always found them creepy no matter what brand of fiction they are in or what their morals are. They are just creepy.

But seriously, supervillains ought to be taking the opportunity to remove one of the larger potential threats when they have the chance.

[cainofdreaming]

The best way to defeat mutants also applies to AIM, really. Give them a bit of rope and they'll create their own destruction or get taken over by their latest science project.

[q99]

Keep in mind, larger *potential* threats. X-men and AIM almost never cross paths, and there's a lot of mutants. Even just on Emma's team at the moment includes Cyclops and Magneto.

Eliminate a few, embroil oneself in a war with mutants.

Or take the prize and cut out.

[owlbrigade1]

Yeah, but Magneto would want to kill me just on general principle due to me being a flatscan, and I think I can probably take Cyclops in a fight. Emma is a telepath though and they really do freak me out. I'd still want to take the opportunity just on principle there.

[q99]

Magneto is not going to go out of his way to attack even a supervillain non-mutant (and killing non-mutants is not really his bag anymore anyway) who didn't target mutants.

Taking Cyclops is no easy task. Eyebeams aside, and combat skills that make him equal to groups of opponents, he's also a skilled tactician with a lot of mutants taking orders.

I mean, Scott's used to taking down groups of giant killer robots.

- I'd still want to take the opportunity just on principle there. -

And that's why Monica has lasted a long time as a leader in a supervillain organization when tons of others get taken down- she wouldn't.

[bj_l]

I cannot see you taking Cyclops in a fight at all, on any level. I know I don't know you but still he is that good and and has the strategic mind to back it up.

[owlbrigade1]

Nah, you just say something about Jean or the Prof which gets him into a wangst spiral and while he is expositing about the hardships of his life then kick him smartly in the nadgers. Job's a good un. :)



I'd be very bad at being a super-villain.

[icon_uk]

Kill Emma and you have the rest of the X-Men actively hunting you down, with Cyclops in vengeful mood.

Ignore her and she'll rank you below a lot of other things to deal with before she gets around to looking for you.

[gnarll]

I always thought Cyclops et al. dodged huge bullet through dumb luck with Illyana.

I don't think she has any ethics or moral limits, except doing what she thinks her friends will approve of, and avoiding doing stuff they won't like. Copycat ethics with no real emotion behind it.

She is a Hell-ruler powerful enough to take on Dormammu and win. She just had this one window in her life when she made some human connections with people, and its precious to her.

And Cyclops and co told her "We're villains now" Just dumb luck she didnt take out a helicarrier when irritated or rob a bank for money, or something.

[cainofdreaming]

Uh, she's really not powerful enough to do that. There were very specific set of circumstances in play in that issue. And I still kinda find it somewhat silly that she lasted long enough to be able to use those to her advantage against someone who has been a threat to the freaking Eternity.

[bruinsfan]

Maybe not an even odds fight card with Dormammu, but here's what she's got going for her:

• Mutant power to open portals to Limbo, allowing easy multi-person teleportation and time travel.
• Immunity to Xavier-level mind reading and telepathic manipulation. May be able to defend against direct targeted psi-bolts, may not.
• Substantial mystical power with years of training using it, including tutelage from Dr. Strange since the AvX event.
• Soul sword that's dangerous/lethal to demons, other mystical creatures, and intangible persons like Kitty Pryde; can also be used to physically deflect or shatter magic spells up to Belasco's power level.
• Command over various hordes of demons in Limbo.

And when she's in full darkchilde freakout mode:
• All Belasco's abilities, including physical invulnerability and raw sorcerous power on a level that allows him to toy with entire teams of X-Men.

Frankly I think she's easily the most formidable and scary X-Man, with Storm, Emma Frost, and Magneto being included in consideration.

[gnarll]

People tend to underestimate Illyana, probably because shes not that interested in the actual superheroing, she just tags along and helps her friends out a bit. Every Hell lord is supreme in their own realm. Dormammu thought he could overcome that advantage. He underestimated Illyanas power level.

The way you become ruler of Limbo is by defeating the previous ruler in magical combat. Then the Elder Gods will give you their favor and make you ruler of Limbo. This is how it was from time immemorial ( well, until Illyana murdered the Elder Gods for irritating her.)

Other Supreme Sorcerers or Sorceresses have an item they carry around that defines them in some manner, like Dr. Strange had the diagnostic Eye of Agamotto.
Illyana has an item formed from her soul. It is a sword. A sword that shatters any spell and cuts only magical beings. That says a lot about her.

Illyana is basically a combat-optimized build.

We saw that through her career, from her clash with Kulan Garth, when Strange noted that there was little he could teach her, to the fight with Forge, when the New Mutants was hilariously wrong in expecting Forge would hurt her. Shes almost destroyed the earth twice when slipping up. Inferno was not much different from when Nightmare or Dormammu manages to get a clawhold on reality.

[cainofdreaming]

Supreme only goes that far. Mephisto could only match Galactus in his realm, and would have lost when Galactus started to eat it. Magik sure wasn't going to win against the elder gods (in name only) before she enlisted the help of Legion. And she didn't overpower Dormammu either. She used a suicide tactic by hurting Limbo itself while Dormammu was drawing power from it.

And during Inferno she just let the demons out. N'astirh and Madelyne, mostly Madelyne, were the ones whose magic threatened the world.

[gnarll]

Being able to match Galactus is going pretty far, I think.

Or take out Dr. Strange in it. Or take on Forge in his place of power. Or take on the Enchatress. Or shatter the master spells of Kulan Garth. Or cut the power of Cyttorak away from his avatar.

No, Illyana is not capable of taking on Dormammu in a fair fight. But she can take a win in an unfair one, as we've seen. She is basically the same level of being as him, or Nightmare, even if there are rankings of power within that tier.