Two panels from INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #14

[starwolf_oakley]

After the cut are two panels from INVINCIBLE IRON MAN #14.



Tony and Carol argue with each other outside an AA meeting. Because Bendis remembers continuity all of a sudden.



All right, Rhodey, I get. But Bruce Banner? Were you "friends" with Bruce Banner, Tony? Did you talk to him about anything? Well, aside from who the Red Hulk might be. http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/3842828.html

Now I'm going to talk about Tony and Carol's alcoholism for a bit. Just so you know.

Tony Stark's alcoholism is just something that's "there" in the Marvel Universe. We don't really know why he's an alcoholic, or if there is a reason. Is it as simple as "Tony got addicted to alcohol because alcohol is addictive"? They don't really say. At last his second major slide into alcoholism from IRON MAN #165-182 was on-panel declared to be a long suicide attempt. And then some weird "I'll get addicted to the armor if I become Iron Man again" stuff until IRON MAN #200.

Carol Danvers' alcoholism is "Well, Carol's been through so much unfair crap, mostly involving the Avengers not being there, why WOULDN'T she be an alcoholic?" Which is giving a reason, of sorts. Sometimes that is needed for fictitious characters: this character is an addict/alcoholic/both because of X, Y and Z. And sometimes it is because these things are addictive.

For the CIVIL WAR movie, a common fan theory is that Tony Stark is losing his mind and nobody cares.



Maybe the same thing is happening in CIVIL WAR II to both Tony and Carol, and nobody cares.

Comments

[long_silence]

I'm surprised that Carol even remembers that she's an alcoholic after all of the mind wipes and bouts of amnesia

[cyberghostface]

"Were you "friends" with Bruce Banner, Tony? Did you talk to him about anything?"

Didn't 'Original Sin' reveal they knew each other?

[draganoche]

They knew each other. Bruce was jealous of Tony's......something, Tony was jealous of Bruce's genius. Tony noticed something off about Bruce's bomb and fixed it, but when he emailed Bruce about the changes, it just got thrown away without reading because pride.

[tcampbell1000]

There are many, many stories that show Bruce and Tony as friends or at least friendly rivals or frenemies. That's not particularly new.

[nyadnar17]

Tony's alcoholism is heavily implied to be a mix of genetics and his relationship with Howard Stark.

[reveen]

MY FRIENDS ARE DEEEEEAAAD!

Huh, doesn't have the same punch to it.

[shingi70]

Seems they're grafting the Stark Banner relationship from the films,

[icon_uk]

We don't really know why he's an alcoholic, or if there is a reason.

But isn't that the case with a lot of alcoholics? There IS no one trigger or single event.

From what I vaguely recall when it was first introduced, it was a holdover from his gadabout days pre Iron Man, when he drank socially and frequently because that was his lifestuyle, then after he became Iron Man and sorted his life out, he still drank habitually, and then drank more as he used it to cope with various stressors in his life until it became a dependency.

[wizardru]

Yeah, I'm confused at that statement. Alcoholism isn't a condition you get after a specific thing happens, like trauma. It's a disease/mental condition that you may be predisposed to. You don't get in a car crash or have a bad week and become an alcoholic...you always were and always will be one. Something might push you over the edge from 'functioning alcoholic' to 'lying on the floor with a bottle of whiskey in your Iron Man suit', but you don't suddenly 'get alcoholic'.

A lot of the problems come from writers in various media not really understanding alcoholism (which to their defense, is true of the general populace at large). Medically there are different kinds and the definition, while in the wild, is very broad and not well categorized (which is why medically they use different terminology, like Alcohol Use Dependency and so forth). So the impression is given that one day someone has something that makes them an alcoholic, as opposed to finally crossing a line.

A core marker for some alcoholics, like Tony, is that they drank and continued to drink heavily, building up a tolerance for alcohol that means that to really feel certain effects, they need to binge drink heavily to get the same buzz that other people might get at a much lower blood alcohol level.

Generally I feel that a lot of weak TV/Movie/Comic writers turn to alcoholism as a lazy stab at a character flaw. Like poor usage of rape, it's something they can put in the characters past as a backstory reference that they can conveniently forget. Say what you will about Tony's addiction, it's never been retconned or tossed out (though occasionally it has been sort of ignored). I didn't think much of the Fear Itself event, but I did like the idea that when Tony needed to other something of value for a Faustian bargain, he offered his sobriety. I thought that was a compelling story idea.

[bmaryott]

This, so very much.

Alcoholism isn't generally BECAUSE of something, anymore than my high blood pressure. With some people HBP is from diet or lack of exercise. Sometimes they can link it to genetics or some condition.

I just have it.

Alcoholism does just happen. Sometimes there are triggers (stress, peer pressure, etc.) but other times just shrug and say "They must have an addictive personality" - ignoring that the person doesn't smoke or use drugs.

We don't know why it happens to some people. It just does.

As far as the Marvel Universe goes, Carol is setting herself up for a major fall. She's using Ulysses as a crutch because unlike Captain Mar-Vel she doesn't have "The Power Cosmic" with it's gift of knowing things, so she's scared she won't live up to his legacy. And she's right - she's not.

[tcampbell1000]

Well, not to muddy the waters, but non-alcoholics can slide into problem drinking, a situation where the body doesn't crave it but the mind does, and to the casual observer there's no apparent difference from an alcoholic fully in the grip of alcoholism, which is part of why alcoholism is so misunderstood. From what I remember, though, Carol's portrayal definitely didn't go like that.

That observation about Ulysses as a Power Cosmic substitute is really interesting, and makes a lot of sense.

[capnduckman]

Maybe I'm a continuity whore...but wasn't alcoholic Tony the one who went evil and had to be replaced by a younger version of himself from an alternate reality? Or is that no longer canon?

[scorntx]

Err... no.
In "The Crossing", Tony turned out to have been brainwashed all along by Immortus, died and got replaced by Teen Tony, but his alcoholism wasn't involved in it.
(Then Tony and Teen Tony got merged and everyone forgot about Teen Tony.)

[burkeonthesly]

They got merged? I thought Teen Tony was the one at the fight with Onslaught, and then Heroes Reborn Tony was basically the Tony we all knew from before, minus the brainwash.

(Admittedly, I wasn't really following Iron Man at the time.)

[bruinsfan]

As is right and proper.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Does Bendis ever not repeat dialogue that he thinks is 'important'?

[lyricalswagger]

I'm not sure if he ever does not repeat dialogue he thinks is 'important'

[katefan]

You know who else does that? Frank Miller. Not Dark Knight 1, Daredevil eighties run, Ronin Miller, but Holy Terror and ASBAR Miller.

I think someone needs to stage an intervention for Bendis and soon...

[starwolf_oakley]

"Brian, first of all we want you to know you are in a safe environment an we all care about you. Second, if this keeps up Tony Stark is going to narrate for a whole issue about how awesome he is compared to the rest of the Avengers."

[junipepper]

I think he just repeats dialog, in general.

[bruinsfan]

Tony and Bruce were such good friends that Tony was a driving force in the decision to put him on a rocket and shoot him into space. (Not, mind you, that I think he was in error in that decision. The Hulk's caused untold destruction, and no BS about him subconsciously calculating angles to avoid hitting bystanders with rubble is ever going to convince me that doesn't include a death toll in triple digits or more.)