Champions #3

[history79]

Comments

[thehood]

We also found out Viv isn't into boys in this issue.

[shadowpsykie]

she could be not into much at all, or into all beings regardless of gender, race, planet of origin, or binary programing. unless the base code is related to her.

[thehood]

She specifically said boys did nothing for her after kissing Amadeus though.

[flint_marko]

Except she liked the boy who her mother accidentally got killed.

[thehood]

Last i check, they didn't date. Not only that, but it's not uncommon for gays or lesbians to try dating the opposite sex before realizing for certain that it's not for them. That and having dated women didn't stop Iceman from being revealed as gay.

More to the point, she never kissed that boy. For all we know she would have come to the same conclusion if she had kissed him.

It's all vague enough where Mark Waid can say Viv is into women. Especially since he's the only one writting her now.

[burkeonthesly]

She might be demisexual--not physically attracted to anyone, unless there's a already an emotional connection in place. Boys in general don't do anything for her, sure, but that one boy she had gotten to know and like? Maybe.

[thehood]

Fair point. Though i'm not sure if they'll go with that.

Either way, she seems to be in the process of learning about herself.

[burkeonthesly]

I'm not sure, either, I'm just putting the possibility out there. Even plenty of people who are demisexual don't use the term, or know that there's a term in use for them.

"Young person learns about themselves" is a comic staple, and not in a bad way. I'll be interested to see how it goes for her.

[strejdaking]

To be fair-the Ice-Man thing was awful.

[thehood]

How they outed him, yeah. But him being gay isn't a bad thing in of itself.

[strejdaking]

Frankly, it kinda is. Even without the insulting way it was handled, just the idea of retconning him to be gay instead of at least bi, feels like out of nowhere ignoring of canon and implying bisexuals apparently aren't good enough of a minority to represent.

[thehood]

Sure, but at the same time it's not like gay men never tried dating women, either because of societal pressure or because they didn't know they were gay at the time. Just because you're not a gold star, doesn't mean you're any less gay.

It's not impossible that the reason all his opposite sex relationships failed was because he in the closet. In fact, that had long been a popular fan theory.

[super_fly]

Has she kissed any girls? It would be wrong to make a declarative statement without the proper data.

[thehood]

Not yet, but expressed interest in doing so. Kamala wasn't interested though.

[long_silence]

Where was this argument when America Chavez said she wasn't into boys so everyone assumed she was into girls?

[thehood]

Young Avengers has pretty big LGBT community, so that's probably it.

And Viv interaction with that boy in her book isn't much of an excuse, especially when America previously dated the Ultimates Nullifier, only for her to be certain later that she is indeed a lesbian.

[long_silence]

She didn't say she was a lesbian in that series. She didn't say she was interested in girls. All she said was that she tried a guy and realized that wasn't her thing.

I remember arguing with people that from what was actually said on panel that it could also mean that she was Asexual or demisexual but everyone took it to mean that she was saying she was a lesbian just because she comes from a society where everyone is a lesbian

[malitia]

We don't even know if the society she comes from is all lesbians. That was literally decided by some based on her mothers, and two guards who were women and on panel at the same time.

There were also 5 or so kids seen from Utopian Parallel but I would be vary on guessing even the gender of them.

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/e/eb/Utopian_Paralell_02.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20140306195414 (I can't tell if they're all girls! O.o Let alone who they'll be attracted to when they grow up.)

[thehood]

And the fact that she was hitting on Kate Bishop. That's kinda why everyone knew she is a lesbian and because Gillan said so.

So there really wasn't any room for doubt, especially after the writer made it clear.

That and she does have a girlfriend now.

[long_silence]

America and Kate barely any conversations that lasted longer than two panels for the first 13 issues of that series. You could barely call their interactions flirting and most of it could be up for interpretation.
If you didn't read Gillen's statements after the fact, there was indeed room for doubt.

I'm not talking about Ewing's work on Ultimates, who has made it explicit. He has had America actually dating a girl and be in a relationship with her, the word lesbian has actually been used, all of which is better for confirming that America is a lesbian than just skirting around the fact. Of course the new writer for America's solo series has apparently never heard of Lisa Halloran and only knows that America supposedly has a crush on Kate Bishop from what fans have told her about Gillen's run on Young Avengers and their subsequent shipping.

[thehood]

The dialogue Kate and America has were very flirty, least on America's side.

And i don't know about that, she said America being the leader of the Ultimates would be referenced in her book, so she must be caught up on Ewing's work.

[gnarll]

Pity. I found her crush on the boy in the "Vision" series adorable. That detracts a lot from it to me.

[tugrul]

thehood is really reading into it. The kiss with Amadeus did nothing for her so Viv said maybe she should try to kiss a girl and Ms. Marvel said she wasn't in an experimental mood. *shrugs*

[gnarll]

Ah, thank you. That makes it much better. Maybe she is still holding a torch.


Not like in, the human or android Torch because that... Ill stop.

[thehood]

Not at all, since she concluded that boys didn't really stimulate her and remember, she never kissed that boy from the Vision book.

Also, Mark Waid had previously alluded to Viv being into girls, back when someone complained to him about the Champions line up not having any LGBT characters.

But i'm reading too much into it, riiight. Or maybe you have a very heteronormative way of thinking. Especially if you think she's still straight after saying kissing a boy did nothing to her.

By the way, she didn't say that Amadeus did nothing for her, she said that kissing a boy did nothing for her. Hence why she then says she should try a different gender.

She didn't think Amadeus was the problem, like you are implying.

[tugrul]

I'm not making more of anything than what I wrote and, dude, keep your spoilers to yourself. I'm actually reading the title like you are but avoiding news websites, interviews and social platforms.

[thehood]

How so?

Besides, she never dated him or kissed him. She could have just as easily had the same conclusion that boys don't anything for her from kissing him.

Also, holding a torch for a dead crush isn't really heathy.

[md84]

...Now I'm wondering if Viv (and the other Visions too come to think of it) are anatomically correct. And if so...WHY?

I mean, I doubt Ultron would have given a crap about whether or not Vision could mate with the meatbags when he first built him.

[thehood]

The Vision book did have Vision and his wife Virginia having sex.

[lbd_nytetrayn]

So when they nominate "her," are they talking about Viv, or the woman with the suggestion?

[cricharddavies]

The latter, I expect, given how much in awe they seem to be later.

[beyondthefringe]

Viv's Visionsweater is totally adorable. They should sell those. :)

[super_fly]

So did Past Cyclops shrink in the wash?

[zylly]

Do they necessarily need a team leader? If their motive is to be different than other super-teams, wouldn't it make far better sense to simply let whoever has the most expertise in a given situation take charge?

[thehood]

Would that work? I mean, wouldn't they disagree on who thar would be depending on the situation?

[zylly]

For some things it would. Space stuff, Nova. Science-stuff, Hulk. Computer stuff, Viv. Stuff needing tactics, Cyclops.

[md84]

What about Kamala and Miles?

[zylly]

I'm... not sure. Kamala seems to be the voice of reason and best at dealing with people. Miles, I don't know.

[q99]

A setup like that is best when a team is more experienced (like the Big 7 JLA, where pretty much anyone can make a call on the fly).

If there's a situation where it's unclear who has the most expertise, it can create confusion if two people give orders at once. Having a leader means you at least have someone who can say, "In this situation, let's listen to X."

[md84]

Well, since Kamala was the one who more or less got this ball rolling, she ought to be the "X" in this case.

[q99]

Yea, she'd make pretty good sense as leader. Miles or Cycs could also pull it off, IMO.

[onsokumaru]

This looks like one of those story that gets adressed 10 years later, when we learn that all the innocent people were slaughtered a few days after the good guys left.