informationgeek: (lyra)
[personal profile] informationgeek posting in [community profile] scans_daily

Some are quick to decry this storyline as a soulless event or concoction of Marvel’s marketing department, but the “Disassembled” event has a very personal, very passionate origin. “It stems from a long standing nerdy idea, one of those ideas I’ve had since I was 8,” admits Bendis. “Anyone who reads comics had these ideas like ‘wouldn’t it be cool if this’ or ‘wouldn’t it be cool if that’ and we were in our big editorial meeting last year and we got to the Avengers. I started saying my nerdy idea out loud and forgetting that I’m in a situation where I could make it happen- I wasn’t pitching the story, just saying things that I thought would be cool and Mark Millar joined in with similar thoughts. Before the end of the day, after a lot of riffing between Mark and I, it became clear that one of us was writing the ‘Avengers’ with this idea locked in and I ended up the lucky one, because he’s already got his with ‘The Ultimates.’ Basically it’s all about the ‘Earth’s Mightiest Heroes’ tagline, what these characters can be and tapping into what the team has been about- change. Change in members, relationships- this isn’t too different from what Stan [Lee] did when he threw out all the popular characters and put in Hawkeye along with two members of the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants- there is a legacy of this kind of thing.”


“Another criticism is of the style of dialogue I’ve chosen for the book, a more natural, more conversational style that a book like this isn’t used to having, something I firmly believe can be accomplished in mainstream comics, even in a bigger team book where they can all talk like real characters and not plot devices. Yes, most mainstream books are written with a very similar language. Its one I study and enjoy. But it doesn’t have to only be that way, with that flavor. People who read ‘Ultimate Spider-Man’ or ‘Daredevil,’ they know this, but there are people reading ‘Avengers’ who are new to this kind of writing and think I don’t understand the characters or don’t have a grasp of them, or I somehow hate them.

“But all it is is a different interpretation of them. I fully understand what makes these characters tick, on levels that would embarrass any comic reader in the world.
- Article interview with Brian Michael Bendis

Story By: Brian Michael Bendis
Art By: David Finch

So let's get to Avengers #501...











Iron Man flies off and then the issue ends with everyone meeting at the mansion to discuss what happened...

Date: 2017-01-13 05:35 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
I know that up there is interview smack-talk, and ain't worth a dingo's kidneys, but...
... Bullshit, Mr. Bendis.

The Vision's remains being packed up into boxes is just monumentally dickish.
(And why's he being handed over to Tony, anyhow? Guy doesn't own him...)

Oh, and look, characters written by Bendis talking about Ultron like he's the most terrifying thing evah!
Bendis sure likes treating Ultron like the most terrifying thing to ever terror.

Date: 2017-01-13 06:00 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
He's right about one thing: as a comic reader, I am indeed embarrassed by Brian Michael Bendis.

Date: 2017-01-14 01:27 am (UTC)
deepspaceartist: Kamen Rider Decade (Decade)
From: [personal profile] deepspaceartist
I can see Vision leaving instructions behind in case of his death to put his remains in Tony's custody, rather than laving them in SHIELD or some other shady group's hands.

Date: 2017-01-13 05:55 pm (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
Good lord there's a lot of frowny faced guys in superhero costumes standing around and whining at eachother in this comic.

Date: 2017-01-13 06:09 pm (UTC)
thanekos: Lora, crafting. (Default)
From: [personal profile] thanekos
“So far one of the funniest things I see is the reaction to the ‘New Avengers’ lineup, with people screaming, ‘Aargh, you suck! That’s not the Avengers!’ Then they list a team they would like to see that is just as outrageous or different than what I’ve shown them. It’s funny that I’m the asshole… but their idea for Gilgamesh and Namor is a great idea.”

He's not wrong about fans.

Date: 2017-01-13 07:01 pm (UTC)
shakalooloo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] shakalooloo
If Jan won't resize, fine; why can't Hank just shrink the doctors and their equipment down?

Date: 2017-01-13 08:31 pm (UTC)
cainofdreaming: cain's mark (pic#364829)
From: [personal profile] cainofdreaming
"real characters"

Yeah, that's a typo. It's singular, not plural. One character. They all have the same voice under Bendis.

Date: 2017-01-13 09:20 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
An above-average fanfic (that I can't find) did a change to this. Black Panther shows up in this conversation and says "Tony wasn't drunk. Even if he had tried to hide it, my senses would have detected any alcohol."

The characters also realise it's Wanda earlier than usual. "Everything happening all at once, it's highly... Improbable."

Date: 2017-01-13 10:24 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
T'Challa probably realised he was already in someone's fanfic and skipped out early.
(That's why he's the king.)

Date: 2017-01-14 12:22 am (UTC)
korvar: (Default)
From: [personal profile] korvar
Tony should have done a blood chemistry test on himself immediately - "I feel drunk but I've not had a drink something might be wrong".

Date: 2017-01-13 09:34 pm (UTC)
stacyhd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stacyhd
"Well, you guys keep putting hulks on the team and you're all -shocked- when it backfires."

Oh Falcon, I know that's not really you talking but ugggggggh. UGGGGGGH.

Great Maker I need a drink.

Date: 2017-01-13 10:22 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Yup, sure keeps backfiring.

Like when they had the Hulk as a founding member, and he left after about... two issues? One?

Then there was the whole two decades without a Hulk on the team.
Then there was She-Hulk, and two decades without her going on any rampage of any kind at all.

That sure is some deep and intricate knowledge of the Avengers Bendis has got goin' on there.

Date: 2017-01-13 11:16 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
And Hulk left of his own free will, after the other founding members where being jerk to him.

Date: 2017-01-14 12:52 am (UTC)
stacyhd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stacyhd
Not to mention that most every time the Avengers have needed them, the Hulk has always helped them out.

And that Jen was a member of the FANTASTIC FOUR, who have saved the entire universe on more than one occasion. Rampage-free.


Date: 2017-01-14 01:09 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
Well, there was that storyline in Geoff Johns' run, where she went out of control thanks to some A.I.M. death gas.
And, funnily enough, smashed up the Vision.

Who recovered by the end of the storyline. And wasn't treated like "just" a machine.

Date: 2017-01-13 10:54 pm (UTC)
miss_abnormal: (Default)
From: [personal profile] miss_abnormal
Back when I first started reading some of Bendis' work (I believe it was his Daredevil run, although I think I read a few scans of his Miles Morales run a bit before that), I liked the way he wrote conversations. Like many people, and Bendis' himself, I thought his dialogue was more realistic and grounded to how human beings talk to each other on a daily basis in the real world.

Now? It annoys me most of the time.

Yes, there are people who talk by repeating a point over and over, or stumble over their words, or change their mind mid-sentence, and so on. That kind of dialogue existing is not bad in and of itself. The problem I have with Bendis' dialogue is that he gives nearly every character the same "conversational" voice. No matter who each character is in terms of background education, professional position, environment in which they grew up in, personality, behavior, age, and mood, nearly all of the characters sound the same. A "realistic" dialogue would be to have some characters talk in short sentences, others in long sentences, some stumble over their words, others think before they speak, some much more formal at all times, others informal at all times, some switch from formal to informal depending on who they are talking to, some use slangs and others not, some use proverbs, others not, and so on. Has Bendis' done some of these? Sure. However, the overwhelming majority of his characters both think and talk in the same, or at least extremely similar, patterns. And when you have these similar speech/though patterns in a group comic in which multiple characters are in the same room many times, it gets aggravating.

And one other thing that annoys me now about his dialogue is that it takes too long to get to the point. Again, yes, there are people in real life that talk like this. However, this is a finite story in a finite medium of entertainment; there is a limited amount of space to write a story. Having characters talk about a particular topic by going round and round on it for two pages, when it could've been reduced to a page or less (depending on the subject matter itself), wastes the reader's time (which is also limited) and wastes space that could have been used for the rest of the story (or stretches a story too much because more space was needed for the story itself). If a whole comic is just characters talking without reaching a particular point/solution/change/conclusion/plan/etc, readers will feel like they've wasted their time.

So... yeah, these were my two-cents, so to speak.

Date: 2017-01-13 11:15 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Basically, Bendis tries to do what Rick and Morty does far better.

Date: 2017-01-14 08:14 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
I think Rick and Morty works because so much of it seems improvised. But even that falls into very, very familiar patterns.

That said, BMB has never given us a 'Get Schwifty' equivalent, so.. Points against him. He could easily resolve things by having Ego declare "SHOW ME WHAT YOU GOT." however.

Date: 2017-01-14 10:34 am (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
So much of it *is* improvised. The belching absolutely has to be, but I swear there's lines of dialogue in there (insults and the like) which seem like they could only have been made up on the spot.

Date: 2017-01-14 12:50 am (UTC)
stacyhd: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stacyhd
Exactly, none of the characters feel like they have a distinctive voice. If you were just reading the script and the names of the characters were all redacted, could you tell one speaker from another?

It. Is. Maddening.

Date: 2017-01-13 11:04 pm (UTC)
razsolo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] razsolo
Man, growing up my two favourite comic book teams were the Avengers and the Legion of Superheroes and this storyline made me quit reading any Avengers titles for YEARS. I can't believe how much he shit on long-standing characters for this rubbish.

It's not like I am resistant to change just for the sake of it - the 5YL period of the Legion of Superheroes did the same thing this story attempted. It deconstructed the team and burned a lot of things to the ground and while there were certain elements I didn't personally love, it's my favourite Legion era because more often than not the characters and history were treated with respect. Disassembled is just nasty and smug, which tbh is a massive problem I have with 99% of Bendis's writing...Most of them are just vindictive petty bullies and that's not really something I wanna read in my escapist superhero fantasy.

Date: 2017-01-13 11:14 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Though ultimately, it seems it was what other people were looking for, considering how successful the run was and it still influences the books to this day.

Date: 2017-01-14 01:03 am (UTC)
razsolo: (Default)
From: [personal profile] razsolo
For sure; doesn't change the fact that this is objectively bad writing though - the whole thing that kicks this off (Jan reminding Wanda she had kids) was based on a false premise and it made Wanda unusable for years. The whole "this is what happens when you have Hulks on your team" when Jen's whole schtick is that she's the Hulk who doesn't arbitrarily lose control. Hawkeye's only solution to his quiver being on fire is to kill himself.

The Avengers swapping out their whole roster occasionally is a tradition, but writers generally don't shit over every character they can get their hands on when they do it.

Date: 2017-01-14 02:49 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Eh, more like subjectively wrong, since again there were people that liked this. I don't agree, but i can't say our opinion is the only right wrong.

And unfortunately, not a lot of writers care about continuity as much as we do.

Date: 2017-01-14 12:08 am (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
It's just disgusting how he treated Wanda. Lady with probability powers? Sure let's give her a psychotic break because plot device! Then he made her majorly fuck up and depower mutants...

Then she wasn't heard from for a number of years til Hawkeye found her in a village, and its only in recent years she's back to normal. Poor Wanda...

Date: 2017-01-14 02:52 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Though the Wanda Clint found was actually a Doombot.

Date: 2017-01-14 01:28 am (UTC)
tugrul: That Chest (Default)
From: [personal profile] tugrul
I must be the only one that thinks this and House of M are Bendis' best works. :3 I love re-reading this. I hate Children's Crusade for pinning all blame on some magic madness creature that Doom attached to Wanda, rather than have Wanda be victim of her powers.

Date: 2017-01-14 03:32 am (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
According to that story Wanda already had the psychiatric problems, the power she and Doom channeled just let her spread the repercussions worldwide.

Date: 2017-01-14 08:17 am (UTC)
mrstatham: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mrstatham
Yeah, didn't she already have some manner of mental health issues from back in the Byrne days? I remember a lot of people contest her treatment here solely on the grounds of 'been there, done that'.

Date: 2017-01-14 10:14 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
they were retconned in Avengers Forever.

Date: 2017-01-15 09:38 pm (UTC)
tugrul: That Chest (Default)
From: [personal profile] tugrul
I liked that it was all her, Janet carelessly revealing she had babies in Disassembled and all the teammates, plus Agatha that had a hand in her losing the twins and with her issues going unchecked and coming to bite them in their asses. I don't like stories where they destroy heroes for angsty drama and it not being impressive but this really did the Avengers in, a real heartbreaking tragedy. And when it's revealed Wanda is attacking them going back in the issues to where she speaks with Tony, and whether she was in the massive Avengers group shot.

Date: 2017-01-14 02:44 am (UTC)


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