Secret Empire: Fourth Salvo

[laughing_tree]

Sam Wilson - Captain America #23:







Secret Empire #4:

Comments

[zachbeacon]

At this point how can anyone be surprised that Quicksilver's only real loyalty is to his sister?

[nyadnar17]

Also why the hell would Quicksilver be loyal to anyone else at that table. Why would any mutant from the Xavier/Magneto days honestly.

[informationgeek]

Now now, he's not a mutant. Marvel said he's not. :p

[ninjapeps]

wait, what? I haven't been paying attention to anything that isn't Transformers the past few years. why is Marvel saying Quicksilver isn't a mutant?

[q99]

I think so he and Wanda could be avengers and not have to worry about the death cloud thing or something, or because they wanted a non-mutant origin since he was in Age of Ultron. They're products of a High Evolutionary experiment. For now, at least.

[thehood]

Unfortunately, they don't qualify as mutants right now. So it's not like he can go to Tian, not that he'd want to until Wanda is saved.

Also, i hate that Spencer seems to have thrown away Wanda's character development just to have her brainwashed and why the hell would Cthon willingly work for Hydra anyway? Why isn't he trying to conquer our realm?

[cainofdreaming]

Yeah, Chthon on Earth has always been a end of the world scenario. It just playing second fiddle to someone is totally out of character.

[long_silence]

Chthon himself is possessing Wanda? I thought Madame Hydra was using one of his spells so that she could possess Wanda

The world is legitimately fucked. The scariest elder god is walking around on Earth in a vessel that has nearly destroyed entire civilizations.

[thanekos]

This is why you don't use the whole Darkhold- you get the whole demon god.

[laughing_tree]

How's possession throwing away character development? Her personality will still be there after Cthon's exorcised.

[thehood]

You know she was moving away from being a victim or a pawn, right?

So yes, this undies that. She's once again the pawn in someone else's game.

[icon_uk]

At least this time it's not "Woman goes crazy because she cannot handle power", it's "Woman has no self-determination because of dominant external force using her as a meat puppet"

That's better... right?

[lordultimus]

To be fair, you could say the same thing about Vision.

Filthy meatbags.

[laughing_tree]

I mean, it's Cthon, Mr. Elder All-Powerful Demon God. There's no shame or weakness in not being to fend off that weight class from possessing you.

[icon_uk]

That's the meta-reason, but as presented the writer has chosen to use her as as mind controlled pawn AGAIN.

Plus, she's thrown off Chthon before

[captainbellman]

NO WANDA HERE, ONLY ZUUL

[shadowpsykie]

hahahah okay that made me spit up my coffee

[thanekos]

" .. only Chthon remains..

" .. Chthon'll have his rare, man-machine-mentality-melding. If you could. "

[blueprintstyles]

I feel bad for Hank Pym as a character, the writer meant for the hit to seem more accidental but was misinterpreted as on purpose. It makes for an interesting character flaw but its what everyone remembers about him now.

[icon_uk]

Despite several, better, writers attempting to contextualise it, most notably Kurt Busiek... who didn't excuse Hank for doing it. but did make it clear it was not a pattern of behaviour from him.

[shadowpsykie]

and then ultimates went whole hog on it....

[lordultimus]

To be fair, Ultimates is alternate continuity.

The problem was that people acted like it wasn't.

[wizardru]

Not just people, but these days the actual writers of the comics.

And every time a writer tries to fix the issue and put the character back on track, another writer has to trot it out.

I mean, this entire scene is a room full of people in a glass Avenger's Mansion throwing boulders at each other. I mean, seriously, Tony...you remember what you guys did (or rather didn't do) for Carol Danvers? For Bobbi over there? Awkwardness? Come on, Spencer, you don't get to be selective about which bullshit stays and goes.

Oddly, I thought this whole scene kind of worked, other than some character beats being really off. I haven't been a huge fan of Spencer demoting Scott to a loser more pathetic than his cinema or previous comics versions, but I get that he likes him...I'm just not sure his attentions to the character are doing what he thinks they're doing.

[laughing_tree]

"you remember what you guys did (or rather didn't do) for Carol Danvers? For Bobbi over there?"

I'm not sure either of those things would organically come up. Carol's not there, and while Bobbi's there, that situation was Hawkeye making a botch, not the team as a whole, and he's not there, either. Plus, even most people at their most asshole extremes have more tact than to bring up, "Hey, remember that time this person at our table was raped?" Plus part two, the most recent Mockingbird series makes the canon status of that whole incident ambiguous.

[wizardru]

True, I was more just using a couple of the many, many examples where I think they're picking and choosing what to use in the argument. My point generally was that a lot of these characters have done a LOT of questionable things in the last 40+ years and maybe a few characters shouldn't enjoy their high-horses quite so much.

[deh_tommy]

This post leaves out the part where Hank snaps at Tony, pointing out how he's somehow still beloved despite selling weapons of mass destruction, causing two civil wars and putting Norman Osborn in power while Hank, despite advancing A.I. life, discovering Pym particles and founding the Avengers Academy, is only ever remembered for accidentally hitting Janet once under a nervous breakdown (he's subsequently calmed down by Scott Lang, who appeals to Pym's love for Wasp and how he's been a role model to him).

[every_spiegel]

I like the apron.

[mizerous]

Kiss him! DO IT!

[every_spiegel]

Dare I ask, what cheek?

[lordultimus]

Yeah, that's definitely the high point of this mini.

[icon_uk]

I do like Mole Man getting treated with a bit of respect, as he IS the ruler of a powerful country adjacent to the US... adjacent in a VERTICAL direction granted, but that's beside the point.

[starwolf_oakley]

Which one does Tyrannus rule? And I think there's one that Grotesk rules.
And Kala. Anyone remember Kala?

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/kala/4005-28505/

[lordultimus]

Yeah, what happened to her? Wasn't she married to the Mole Man for a while?

[icon_uk]

They were certainly dating for a while, but that was a long time ago.

[thehood]

Another part of Subterranea i think.

[shadowpsykie]

that is one AWKWARD dinner party.....

[beyondthefringe]

So... they decided that the best time to bring back Pymtron -again- was -now-?
For fuck's sake. He's been off the table for all of five minutes, since they threw him into the sun. You'd think that his return would be serious business, not just another piece to a major event.

It's like oh look, Steve is evil and Hydra rules the country.
And oh yeah, Cthon is possessing Wanda.
And by the way, CITIES FULL OF ULTRONS.

And while I'm ranting at the what-the-fuckery... why exactly is the Tony AI fucking DRUNK? How is this a good idea? Or a sane idea? Or a tactical one? It makes no sense for any part of the story.

[thehood]

I still think Nick Spencer didn't know he wasn't able to use flesh and blood Tony until the last second.

[leoboiko]

I hope not. I'm perfectly OK with "drunk" AI – hell half of my code ends up behaving "drunkenly" despite my best intentions, and anyway there's a long and noble tradition of AIs getting hooked up on cyberdrugs, even the recent Vision mini did it – but the real Tony breaking sobriety would for me be a very disappointing cheapshot.

[laughing_tree]

You're describing part of why I like this story. There's a Grant Morrison-on-JLA-esque element of "let's dial everything up to 11."

AI Tony is drunk because its his way to cope with the world gone to hell. Deep down, he probably knows it's not a good idea himself.

[leoboiko]

Secret Empire #4 was by far my favorite issue so far – hell it's my favorite event issue of all modern events, hands down. Ultrank forcing a family dinner down the throat of his ex-colleagues with the whole thing turning into an Avengers superpowered soap opera dirty-laundry-in-public exploitation talk show is exactly what I'm up for when I read comic books!

[beyondthefringe]

I do love Pymtron being the one to call the others on their bullshit even as he whines about his own sorry lot in life and lack of respect.

[remial]

I gotta say if Evil Steve uses his authority to bring back Firefly, All Hail Hydra.

[q99]

"This is officially the creepiest thing I've ever been part of."

It's really not ^^ I forgive you for wanting to block out the rest, though!

[ovaltinepatrol]

Is ghost Tony actually drunk or is Cap just giving him a hard time?

[wizardru]

It's really hard to tell. My assumption is 'Cap is just taking a cheap shot because manipulating people is something HydraCap is good at', but the whole 'drunk AI' thing is really weird.

Spencer spends the previous couple of issues making hay of how difficult AI Tony is to work with and how he's such a nightmare and out-of-control and we really don't see it. We see him being actually self-destructive, just slightly ruder than normal. So I'm not sure if this is 'drunk AI' Tony or just 'angry in the moment Tony' or 'acting out as a distraction Tony'. I actually like parts of this scene a lot, but parts are a little inscrutable.

Also, where is Tony's body? Under Hydra control?

[squirle]

When did the story about fascists taking over the Unites States get this... fun?