laughing_tree: (Default)
[personal profile] laughing_tree posting in [community profile] scans_daily

Roberto has no idea how tough things are about to get — he’s a master of long-term planning, but in Steve Rogers’ Hydra agent, he’s almost definitely met his match in that department, and the wheels the evil Cap has set in motion could end up crushing A.I.M. in their path. So when things get really bad for him — and for the world — a little hope and caring might just go a long way. Not to mention that helping other people, and letting other people help you, is just good policy for life in general if you can do it. -- Al Ewing

Date: 2017-06-16 04:43 pm (UTC)
nyadnar17: (Default)
From: [personal profile] nyadnar17
"Then you joined the establishment" is so damn brilliant. Perfectly encapsulates what a meaningless, catch-all insult for whatever side I disagree with that word has become.

Date: 2017-06-16 05:39 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Especially since Stevil's Hydra is the establishment.

Date: 2017-06-16 10:51 pm (UTC)
velador: Victor von Doom gonge good, repaired face (victor)
From: [personal profile] velador
Isn't that a case where it makes sense? Overall, supervillains are the ones fighting for change and superheroes are the ones trying to prevent it, as the ever-lasting status quo of the medium dictates it. So it does make sense for Doom, AIM, Hydra etc. to see themselves as fighting against the established governments of the world they are trying to conquer.
Subsequently, if Larry here is in context a long-term member of AIM, then he spend years working for an organization trying to bring a new world of technocracy, just to see them lose sight of their goal and serve those who toppled their vision again and again.
So in context, it IS brilliant since it tells us in few words why characters like Larry would help the Hydra coup out of idealism instead of fear or mind control.

Date: 2017-06-17 12:25 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jlbarnett
not really because Fascism is like an old establishment. It's been done, we've seen it's weaknesses. If he's joined some group that wanted to bring back feudalism and complained Bobby had "joined the establishment" we certainly wouldn't give his side change any validity

Date: 2017-06-17 02:53 pm (UTC)
captainbellman: It Was A Boojum... (Default)
From: [personal profile] captainbellman
There again, how many people voted for Brexit and Trump as the "anti-establishment" options, despite both being the agenda of a long-established right-wing party? It's all in how it's spun...

Date: 2017-06-17 06:01 pm (UTC)
velador: Victor von Doom gonge good, repaired face (dr.doom)
From: [personal profile] velador
Whereas conservatives say left-wing parties never advocate something new but are stuck with failed socialist ideas from the last century.
It's all a matter of perspective and of course, propaganda is only what the other side does.

Basically the less in power you are, the more you can see your opponents as establishment.
Edited Date: 2017-06-17 06:01 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-18 06:42 pm (UTC)
glprime: (Default)
From: [personal profile] glprime
...But then DOOM becomes the Establishment.

Date: 2017-06-16 05:05 pm (UTC)
shadowpsykie: Information (Default)
From: [personal profile] shadowpsykie
people should know better than to try and kill a New Mutant... they always come back....

Date: 2017-06-16 07:57 pm (UTC)
angelophile: (Default)
From: [personal profile] angelophile
Well... The originals, perhaps.

Date: 2017-06-17 12:12 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Katie Cook Doug)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Though it CAN take up to 25 years or so in some cases...

Date: 2017-06-17 12:19 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
And a few pages for others.

(The benefit of being an alien in a cosmic crossover. Death's cheaper'n cheap spirits.)

Date: 2017-06-16 05:10 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
No! Not Larry (from Stores)!

Not-Steve's evil knows no bounds!

Date: 2017-06-16 05:27 pm (UTC)
coldfury: (Default)
From: [personal profile] coldfury
Ewing's evil knows no bounds. He took Larry from us.

Date: 2017-06-17 12:03 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
How can I ever read anything with Larry in it again, knowing he's a willing member of Hydra?
Ewing has ruined Larry for me forever!

Date: 2017-06-17 12:14 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Katie Cook Doug)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Believe it or not, this is not the first time we've met Larry and he seems sincere when he says he used to really like Roberto

Date: 2017-06-17 12:17 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] scorntx
I am aware of that. I know of Larry (from Stores), and his... err, fondness for the Supreme Leader.
(In fact, given his desire for Roberto to Show Them, Show Them All! back then, this vile betrayal might actually be possibly genuine.
Or at least have given Hydra a foothold.
Which makes it even more upsetting.)

Date: 2017-06-16 05:36 pm (UTC)
reveen: (Default)
From: [personal profile] reveen
I like Ewing just flat out calling Steve Evil Cap instead of trying to get us to buy into the idea of the noble hero twisted to represent fascism or whatever.

Date: 2017-06-16 05:44 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
I really loved how they showed that Doctor Faustus mindcontrol is useless to people who were trained by Xavier.

Date: 2017-06-16 08:04 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Cap)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
This storyline seems to be stretching Faustus past his limits. He's a hypnotist. The mind-power equivalent to The Shocker. Pure bush-league, in his field. Mentallo has it all over this guy. Hell, The Ringmaster has it over Faustus.

But now anybody trained by Xavier, or anybody who watched a PowerPoint by somebody trained by Xavier, anybody named Javier, can shake Faustus off with no trouble.

There's a whole mess of mutant telepaths that would have Faustus dressed in a duck costume and singing "I'm a Little Teapot" inside of five minutes. I wonder how editorial is going to handle that...

Date: 2017-06-16 08:18 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
That's probably why most mutants anyone that has been trained by Xavier, where moved to New Tian.

Berto is the exception.

As for your comparison to Metallo and Ringmaster, neither of them have had schemes at the level of what Faustus has done in previous Cap stories. Metallo hasn't really done much after his old partner Fixer joined the Thunderbolts all those years ago.
Edited Date: 2017-06-16 08:26 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-17 01:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile]
Actually, Ringmaster was almost successful in using his tech to be elected president.

That aside, Faustus, can pull a mind screw, but only on a one on one basis. Mass mindwipe with a few words isn't his wheel set.

Date: 2017-06-17 01:24 am (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Normally, but he had help this time.

Date: 2017-06-16 09:34 pm (UTC)
starwolf_oakley: (Default)
From: [personal profile] starwolf_oakley
The Shocker doesn't fit my definition of bush league. He often gives Spider-Man a hard time when they fight. It just never got personal in any way, Shocker has no connection to Peter Parker's friends, so the Shocker isn't really A list.

Date: 2017-06-16 09:38 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
In fact, Shocker has more victories over Spidey than Eddie Brock/Venom.

Shocker also beat Punisher in one blow.

Date: 2017-06-16 10:57 pm (UTC)
velador: Victor von Doom gonge good, repaired face (dr.doom)
From: [personal profile] velador
Seriously?!? That's awesome, can anyone post the scans here, I would LOVE to see Punisher defeated by Shocker :-))

Date: 2017-06-17 01:40 am (UTC)
bizarrohulk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bizarrohulk
Someone with too much time on his hands once worked out that Shocker actually has the second-best win/loss record of all the Spider-rogues. Only Doc Ock fares better than him.

Date: 2017-06-17 05:46 am (UTC)
goattoucher: (Kurt)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
Well color my face red: When I suggested that Dr. Faustus was the Shocker of the mind control set, I was doing a disservice to the Shocker!

I will take that hit.

Date: 2017-06-17 01:37 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
A thing about hypnotism though, is it's much more spreadable.

A telepath can normally only affect X number of targets because each one uses more mental power in a two-way contest. A hypnotists can broadcast to a city because it's a technique that is merely projected one-way, their mind is not in direct contact with every target and it's not watered down on any of them.

So in order to do something of this scale, you generally need an alpha+ level telepath with a booster like Cerebra. Faustus is more useful in that respect, he's not trying to go mind to mind with everyone.

But of course those trained to defend against it are fine, his main advantage is breadth.

Date: 2017-06-16 07:57 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Outrage)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
So... Robert DaCosta.

Sunspot: Super strong, super durable mutant.

Is going to go down via an administrative assistant with a pistol?

These people run a company worth billions. Why do -I- know their character's abilities better than they do?

Date: 2017-06-16 08:02 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Except in this instance, you don't. He doesn't go down easily and that's not even a pistol, that's obviously not a bullet.

Date: 2017-06-16 08:06 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Brimley)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
I'll have to take your word for it.

But the fact that a guy who has fought global level threats goes down to a secretary with a gun, even a really -nice- gun, does not scream "Great continuity!" to me.

Date: 2017-06-16 08:14 pm (UTC)
thehood: (Default)
From: [personal profile] thehood
Neither is judging whether something counts as "Great Continuity" by reacting to a panel without knowing the context. And again, you're still acting like that's a regular gun Larry is using.

You also seem to have missed how easily Berto shakes off Faustus attempt at mind control and the fact that he seemed to have planned a contingency for such a thing.

Al Ewing has written Berto as a really smart strategist. We don't even see Berto get hit, so for all we know, it's all part of Berto's plan.
Edited Date: 2017-06-16 09:40 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-17 01:53 am (UTC)
q99: (Default)
From: [personal profile] q99
It's an AIM science gun by someone intending to shoot Bobbie, which may not even work....

Date: 2017-06-16 10:34 pm (UTC)
bruinsfan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] bruinsfan
Is Roberto supposed to be super-durable, though? I recall he could handle the stresses of using his own superhuman strength, but I don't remember invulnerability being among his powers.

Date: 2017-06-16 11:55 pm (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
I recall the original New Mutants making a big deal of him *not* being invulnerable. The phrase "Careful Bobby, you're strong, not invulnerable!" was one of the lesser recurring Claremontisms.

That might have changed since then, but I'm still fine with Bobby being shot, even if he does have invulnerability. If you're specifically planning to shoot Sunspot, making sure you have a gun that can specifically hurt him seems pretty reasonable.

Date: 2017-06-17 12:16 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Katie Cook Doug)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
One reason I would have found it much more effective for HIM be the one to be casually shot dead back in New Mutants #60 rather than... well, you know who.

Date: 2017-06-17 12:09 am (UTC)
icon_uk: (Default)
From: [personal profile] icon_uk
Sunspot isn't really super-durable, his body doesn't tear itself apart when he uses his powers, but he's not invulnerable beyond that, to bullet or blippy energy pulse thingies...

Date: 2017-06-17 06:01 am (UTC)
goattoucher: (Cyke)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
But since then his energy powers have expanded to include flight and energy blasts.

Consider how Cap and Spidey have been retconned to be more durable than most due to dense muscle tissue, and to have regenerative abilities that explain them being fine the issue after a beat down.

No New Mutant has ever been enough of a marqee player to get that sort of detailed reexamination of his powerset, but it follows.

My google-fu skills are telling me that he survived a bomb blast from the old Scientist Supreme when he was acquiring AIM, and has taken a few punches to the pretty-pretty facemeats from Smasher. This on top of the fact that he has energy absorption powers and the gun directed at him is clearly an energy weapon.

Date: 2017-06-17 06:49 pm (UTC)
goattoucher: (Spidey)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
Apparently his energy absorption has changed too, as he recently absorbed gamma radiation from a janked-up Abomination.

As for the bomb and Smasher: either they screwed up then by not aligning to old continuity, or they are screwing up now by not aligning to their newly established continuity.

Date: 2017-06-16 11:51 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
As James Bond weapons go, I do kinda love the tablet gun.

Date: 2017-06-17 02:13 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] astrakhan42
Question: what are some other scenes where Xavier's mental training manifests as the professor talking to the user? Rogue did it in one of the Standoff tie ins in Uncanny Avengers and it seems like a narrative concept that's been used elsewhere.


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