starwolf_oakley: (Default)
[personal profile] starwolf_oakley posting in [community profile] scans_daily
Conflict is needed for drama. And in a group, there is that one character who is around just to cause conflict with the other characters. WEST COAT AVENGERS #69 is an example of when there are two characters there just to cause conflict, and what happens when they fight each other.

Story by Roy Thomas, with art by Paul Ryan.


[personal profile] zylly said:
I've never been a fan of the "Badass Longer Who's Somehow Part of a Team" character trope. I'm the guy yelling at Logan and Raphael to shut up and listen to Scott and Leo.


In creating USAgent, first known as Super Patriot, Mark Gruenwald wanted a kind of mirror image for Steve Rogers. John Walker was from the south, grew up on a farm, and joined the army when there wasn't a war on. Various other creators turned him into a jerk with possible mental issues. Plus the freaky "had his memory altered so he didn't know his parents were murdered in front of him."

Hawkeye is also a jerk. But Hawkeye being a jerk who is constantly outclassed by the rest of the Avengers is his thing. It was especially his thing in the Silver and Bronze Age. He's a great leader when he's in charge, as seen in both the West Coast Avengers and the Thunderbolts. But he is argumentative when he isn't in charge. Sometimes he is as moral and upstanding as Captain America. And sometimes... less so.

From when USAgent first appeared in WEST COAST AVENGERS, he and Hawkeye didn't get along. USAgent said "I am now an Avenger. Period." And Hawkeye tried to punch him in the face. And failed. It got worse from there.

This issue is "The Fight" between USAgent and Hawkeye, intercut with flashbacks to how we got here. There is a video meeting between the East Coast and West Coast Avengers teams, and how they will be operating under the United Nations. So General Lewis Hayworth (USAgent's "handler") says USAgent doesn't *have* to be in the Avengers anymore.

We find out Scarlet Witch and Wonder Man are breaking up, and Hank Pym and Janet Van Dyne aren't getting back together. Roy Thomas didn't want to continue those relationships John Byrne started, I guess.

After only getting one vote (from himself), USAgent is so angry he decides to have it out with Hawkeye.


Hawkeye's helmet is from his AVENGERS SPOTLIGHT series.

"Bold Urban Commandos" sounds like a joke superhero team from "Key and Peele" or "Blackish." But it was an actual team (sort of) from CAPTAIN AMERICA #323. They eventually became Battlestar, Right-Winger, and Left-Winger.

He's just... I... Clint, I know you have a lot of guts and determination, but that only gets you so far, ESPECIALLY in a superhero comic. USAgent can lift a maximum of 10 tons and he was trained by Taskmaster. Yes, you know a lot of fighting moves but can't lift 10 tons.

Also, I'm sure Hawkeye could eventually beat USAgent with his trick arrows and a knowledge of the area. But in a one-on-one fist fight?


Shrubbery? Ni!

Clint swings to safety with his grappling hook arrow. But...



All right, that was pretty funny.

An annoyed USAgent drags Hawkeye from the water when, ZAP!


This is "The two of you are acting like children, not Avengers" with a bit of "Yes, Hawkeye started it and he's an ass, but we like him more than you."

Part of these seems like a gambit by Hawkeye: If he wins, he beat someone way stronger than him, so he's awesome. If he loses, USAgent looks like a bully. Maybe the team was following the fight on securtiy cameras, so they knew what the two were saying to each other, and Hawkeye isn't in "the right" here.


Nobody really looks good here. I think Hawkeye and USAgents mixed it up a few more times in THUNDERBOLTS.

Date: 2017-06-27 03:43 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Am I missing something here? It looks like US Agent picked a fight and Hawkeye accepted; that's a really stupid thing to do given their respective power levels but Clint does seem to have the moral high ground.

Date: 2017-06-27 04:03 am (UTC)
mastermahan: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mastermahan
In creating USAgent, first known as Super Patriot, Mark Gruenwald wanted a kind of mirror image for Steve Rogers. John Walker was from the south, grew up on a farm, and joined the army when there wasn't a war on. Various other creators turned him into a jerk with possible mental issues.

I thought Gruenwald was the one who wrote an emotionally unstable John Walker beating a number of Watchdogs to death?

Date: 2017-06-27 04:56 am (UTC)
burkeonthesly: (Default)
From: [personal profile] burkeonthesly
Wow, look at Agent getting his story straight for when he has to explain a dead Hawkeye. "I didn't mean to-- I mean, I didn't realize there was such a steep drop over here. Yeah, that's it." He's done this before.

Date: 2017-06-27 04:58 am (UTC)
goattoucher: (Kurt)
From: [personal profile] goattoucher
I have a soft spot for street level heroes, so I've always enjoyed Hawkeye. Some make him out to be a cheap Green Arrow knock-off, but aside from the bow, the character's couldn't be more different. Ollie operated at street level most of the time, but when he occasionally got called up to the majors, he didn't get a major power boost like some street level guys (coughBatmancough). He was never anything more than a guy with a bow.

And a super-hot girlfriend who is one of the top ten fighters in the world.

And billions of dollars (because what street level DC hero -isn't- a billionaire?)

Hawkeye has always had this streak of self doubt/chip on his shoulder about being the shortest guy on the basketball team. He's a good leader, but that flaw does rise to the surface now and again.

I really dug his recent series, because it made him actually operate at the street level, where is is quite the badass.

His character design in this issue? Yikes. I'd rather trade for Hank's red jumpsuit.

Date: 2017-06-27 05:23 am (UTC)
sean_613: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sean_613
"You can all go the blazes" seriously is Marvel run by the language police?

Date: 2017-06-27 05:32 am (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
"Good and sick. GOOD AND SICK"

Date: 2017-06-27 03:13 pm (UTC)
wizardru: Hellboy (Default)
From: [personal profile] wizardru
This was SOP for Marvel for years. When I was a kid, first I thought these were actual phrases people used, then later I assumed they were out-of-date. Eventually I realized a few were, but never that prominent, and for the most part it was just nod-wink censorship:

"You got to BLAZES!"
"He got the Spit knocked out of him!"
"I'll flaming gut that guy, bub!"

And so on. I mean, it wasn't until the 90s that the CCA started to fade away and the pretense was dropped.

Date: 2017-06-27 05:32 am (UTC)
sarahnewlin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sarahnewlin
I really despise Jeremy Renner. I really do.

Its transferred to comic Hawkeye for me. He's unbearable.

Date: 2017-06-27 07:30 am (UTC)
tigerkaya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tigerkaya
I was always partial to the Hawkeye persona of EMH.

Date: 2017-06-28 04:45 am (UTC)
tigerkaya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tigerkaya
Oh from the Avengers cartoon Earths Mightiest Heroes.

Date: 2017-06-27 02:47 pm (UTC)
bradygirl_12: (ollie (glamor queen green))
From: [personal profile] bradygirl_12
"Go sit on it."

Heh, Hawkeye's a Happy Days fan!

Date: 2017-06-27 04:06 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] jmacq1
Wow....that's some serious comic-book melodrama with Wanda overselling USAgent big-time. Everything they have? I'd put decent odds on almost any single member of that crew being able to take down USAgent by themselves. Some with more difficulty than others, but still.

Iron Man would totally give USAgent another chance later on with Force Works.

Date: 2017-06-27 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] balbanes
Poor Walker. IIRC, he was created to make Rogers look good, at a time when most readers had become suspicious of government (and when "rebel" characters were getting more popular). So Rogers was written as "following the American Dream" rather than taking orders from the government, and Walker was the opposite. All of Walker's flaws were designed to make us appreciate Rogers more.

Thankfully, their characters have diverged somewhat since then, though original Walker was effectively reincarnated as Ultimate Cap.


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