Secret Empire #6

[laughing_tree]

I’m not oblivious to the fact that folks can feel like they suffer from event fatigue or what have you. All I can say to that is, I personally believe that events are like any other kind of story. The delivery method doesn’t matter. Whether it’s its own title, a weekly book, an anthology, or a team-up, I don’t believe there is a type of book that doesn’t work. All that matters at the end of the day is whether or not your story is good. -- Nick Spencer

Comments

[shadowpsykie]

.... what?

[seisachtheia]

I've only been vaguely following this, but...yeah, what?

Can anyone explain what happens at the end there to me?

[laughing_tree]

Stark's "clean slate protocol" was presumably a command to blow up the resistance base.

[seisachtheia]

Okay, I get that from his stalling, but who is the woman (who presumably gets blown up)?

[laughing_tree]

The current Madam Hydra. She has a bit of a mother/son relationship with Steve Rogers.

[superboyprime]

Lots of good moments this issue, but my favorite might be a tiny one. Pietro, after insisting over and over that he's just here to find and help his sister, when he finally does encounter her and have his chance... he focuses on rescuing civilians instead.

[thosefew]

How was Kingpin singing? Bass? Baritone? Putting on an Aileen Quinn impression? How long did he keep singing? Did his men harmonize with him? Did Daredevil?

These are things I care about in this event.

[donnblake]

"...What's the boss doing?"

"He's singing, Joey. He's singing showtunes."

"Are we supposed to sing along? Or dance or something?"

"Nah, just carry the bag. Boss gets funny moods sometimes. Just be glad there aren't any ninjas around this time."

"... How could you tell?"

"What? That he's in a funny mood? The showtunes, man."

"No, I mean, how could you tell if there were ninjas around? Aren't they like, mad sneaky?"

"You'd think, right? But my experience is, when there's ninjas around, it's usually hundreds of them, raining from the sky and blocking out the sun."

"Heh. Good thing we know the sun'll come out tomorrow, hey?"

"... Shut up and carry the bag, Joey."

[randyripoff]

I have to admit, the Kingpin singing was a nice touch. Frightening in it's own way.

[miramira]

I'm envisioning Caiaphas from Jesus Christ Superstar.

[donnblake]

Wait, 73

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGZgG8Ub8k4

or 2000?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVB8QBurhV0

Edit: *facepalm*

Obviously I was thinking of Pilate there. Substantially less vocal difference between the Caiaphases in the two productions...

[miramira]

For what it's worth, I'd go with 2000 on both.

[donnblake]

I do have a weakness for the sheer amount of scenery 2000 Pontius 'M Bison' Pilate chews, although I'm not sure whether it's enough to offset the amount by which 73 Judas sings circles around his counterpart.

[icon_uk]

In this, as in all things Kingpin, if in doubt I assume he'd do whatever it was just like Sydney Greenstreet, who I believe had a pleasant, if not remarkable, baritone

[informationgeek]

That speech AI Tony gives would be touching and good... if you know, it was Tony Stark, the real one. Otherwise, it is just kind of hollow and empty, no matter what the writer tries to say.

[beyondthefringe]

Evil is dumb and can be stalled with a monologue. Theirs, the good guy's, it doesn't matter.

[mastiff]

The problem about Spencer's quote above is that, even if the story is good, sometimes that story is hijacking another story that the reader was enjoying or was invested in. Sometimes that other story is irreparably damaged or destroyed. To steal all momentum from the other individual stories in an attempt to make something bigger and better is a dick move, with diminishing returns.

It's like borrowing my car and bringing it back with no gas, a scratch from bumper to bumper and the overwhelming stench of cheap booze and goats. Yeah, I'm glad your night was epic, but now you've ruined mine.

[laughing_tree]

Spencer's said no titles were forced to tie in. It was voluntary.

[wizardru]

Now that's just nonsensical. A multi-month event which changes the United States completely, affects nations on other continents and involves massive parts of the in-world universe being separated or changed? This is like Goldfinger telling a guy who decides he doesn't want to join his plan to rob Fort Knox that he's free to go.

A main problem with event fatigue is exactly what mastiff describes. Oh, did you like Ms. Marvel? Great, after we end the world, we'll pick up where we left off...six months later, with a new restart, maybe with a new artist or writer, possibly with a new status quo. AGAIN. Now she's an Avenger. Now she's a Champion. And so on. It's not that good stories can't be told during an event or working around one...but no small amount of titles have been derailed, continually interrupted or affected by these things. That Monsters Unleashed event was fine, for example: it's easy to ignore something that is effectively a side-story that HAS many characters in it, but doesn't cause the Avengers to break-up or turn a major hero into a dictator for a group he's being fighting for decades.

Some titles simply cannot ignore the event. Anything with characters like Sam Wilson, for example. Anyone under the dome. Anyone who interacts with some of the characters directly affected. It's a massive ripple effect. Especially as we don't yet know how they're going to basically reset the world again. Hell, we weren't even done with Hawkeye as pariah for killing the Hulk, followed by Hawkeye going walkabout...and now we're resetting again.

And if it's exhausting for the readers, it's even worse for the creators who are affected by it tangentially. Multiple creators got off the merry-go-round when they got tired of trying to work on longer arcs only that have them shelved repeatedly. I'm not saying we shouldn't have events...but maybe return to the old 'event within a line' style, rather than 'affects virtually everything except a couple of fringe titles'.

[laughing_tree]

"Some titles simply cannot ignore the event."

Besides Spencer's own Cap book, which ones?

Daredevil is under the dome, but his book is completely skipping Secret Empire. Defenders, ditto. Jessica Jones, ditto. Ms. Marvel's a wanted fugitive, on the run from Hydra, ditto. Jane Foster's been banished to another dimension by Hydra, ditto. It's perfectly possible to ignore the event, in the same way Wolverine could go on a multiple issue sojourn through time in one book while hanging out with the X-Men in another. You just assume they're happening at different times.

The only titles that wouldn't be true for are the ones whose characters undergo some major change in the event, like if someone dies or loses their powers. But I can't think of anyone who actually has their own title that this has happened to in Secret Empire.

[wizardru]

I'm thinking of titles like Occupy Avengers, Champions and others. Titles that require interrupting whatever they were doing to accommodate the event. Did Occupy Avengers, a title that was formed around Hawkeye going 'walkabout', suddenly transform overnight from 'talking SHIELD into not killing peaceful Skrulls' into 'and then Hawkeye and Black Widow were a couple and the other team members were off fighting in the underground and oh, Nighthawk is dead now'? That whole issue seems more like a middle-finger to the event than one that felt like it really wanted to participate. I mean, 'new' post-CWII Hawkeye hasn't even had a year of his new status quo and it's totally erased for this event? That doesn't seem organic, IMHO.

Some titles probably got more choice and got into it more than others, but it still seems kind of forced for some of them. New titles like Mighty Captain Marvel, X-Men Blue and Gold and others that are barely out of their first four issues and they're suddenly thrust into the event. Yes, they probably could have opted out, but could a title like Deadpool (with its heavy use of SHIELD characters) really afford to ignore the event?

I'm not saying the event can't result in good comics; it certainly can. I just think it's detrimental to long term runs. It breaks momentum and some cases just derails plots.

[laughing_tree]

If books like PUNISHER - whose lead character has joined the dark side over in SECRET EMPIRE - and NICK FURY - a title that stars a SHIELD agent and whose main villain is Hydra - aren't tying in, I don't see why DEADPOOL or the others you mention couldn't have easily ignored the event as well.

I don't disagree that tie-ins can be handled badly and derail stuff, of course. I think everyone agrees with that. But if the decision to tie-in is optional, I don't lay that at the feet of the event itself.

[wizardru]

That's a fair point. But I'd argue that the Punisher normally always exists somewhat apart from the main MU continuity, so he's normally able to be exempt from this sort of thing....and the Nick Fury Jr. stuff (from what I've seen) is about a character mostly off the grid anyways, as well.

But you're right, some titles clearly said 'nope' and were allowed to. I don't think it's an accident that the Punisher just returned from hiding out from the last event and that titles like Squirrel Girl happened to choose right now to go the Savage Land (but somehow missed the Secret Empire team that went there). :)

[burkeonthesly]

So is having a job month to month.

[thehood]

Yeah, but if someone was forced they would never admit it.

[starwolf_oakley]

Hawkeye's self-recriminations sound like something out of Game of Thrones.
"We could have avoided all this had I accepted Jon Snow as a son."
"We could have avoided all this had I not dropped that Stark boy out a window."
"We could have avoided all this had I not trusted Petyr Baelish." (Well, many characters think that, and they're right.)

Throughout this storyline, I've wondered if "the real Steve Rogers" sees a warped appeal in being in charge. With nobody talking back to him (like Hawkeye always does) things can finally get done.

[shakalooloo]

So, what're the odds of some 'Wilson Fisk becomes mayor of NY' story spins out of Secret Empire?

[icon_uk]

If Luthor can become President, and JJJ can become Mayor, then I'd say Fisk is in with a very good chance.

[scorntx]

Heck, he'd probably be less self-destructive than either of them.

[burkeonthesly]

Marvel's next big event: Tammany Hall II!

[cainofdreaming]

"The Kingpin of crime for president!"

"Hey, at least his business practices can stand light better than the current one's.,"

[bruinsfan]

Didn't let Bruce Banner stay dead long, did they? Did Cap resurrect him with the Cosmic Cube as a guinea pig or did they have some other explanation that completely ignores his "go into the light" moment in Uncanny Avengers?

[thehood]

No Cosmic Cube involved, he hasn't gotten it yet. This was just science.

Besides, it's only temporary and Bruce dies again.