Was it worth it?

[stubbleupdate]

This week Generations: The Unworthy Thor & The Mighty Thor came out. If you like Jason Aaron's Thor run (which stretches back to November 2012*) then Jason Aaron's enerations: The Unworthy Thor & The Mighty Thor is another issue of Jason Aaron's Thor. I enjoyed it immensely.

Unfortunately, the labelling makes it slightly confusing as to who actually appears.

While there is no doubt as to who is the Mighty Thor, the Unworthy Thor isn't who might first come to mind. A better term might be the Pre-Worthy Thor who has not yet proved himself worthy of wielding a Mjolnir, rather than the Post-Worthy Thor with the Uru arm, who lost Mjolnir and took up Jarnbjorn because Nick Fury whispered to him on the moon.

Generations is a decent self-contained story (but with a shoe-horned in epilogue that does nothing for me) about why a Thor needs Midgard and what it means to be a God and when Thor first met Thor


We're just leaning in to the idea of young Thor, alone in a room, practising lifting his hammer, when his dad walks in.

Bor-damned sounds strange from Odin. I get that he's using Bor as a substitute for God, as he was once the all-father, but he is also Odin's dad. God-damned sounds fine. Dad-damned sounds weird.
Also, Odin is less of a bad dad than people might have thought.

Let's play "Spot your favourite Asgardians"

Thor is distracted by prayer. It is the prayer of Vikings who have travelled to Egypt to plunder (manipulated by Loki) and ask for divine intervention. They receive a direct answer to their prayers.

And then, after the battle, a return to the comforts of home.

And yes, that is the Sphinx's nose.

*Oh dear. Jason Aaron has been writing Thor for longer than my longest relationship lasted.

Comments

[zachbeacon]

In fairness, actual Norse mythology has a fair amount of horse nookie. I think someone here pointed out that Loki's family looks like a petting zoo

[remial]

"Loki, that is the WRONG kind of 'petting'. The WRONGEST kind!"

[cygnia]

"His wife? A horse..."

[dustbunny105]

Whoa. I haven't seen head or (pony)tail of that meme in an age...

[arilou_skiff]

Now where's that MLP crossover fanart...

[mastermahan]

Oh, it's around. There's a long-running fan theory that Pinkie Pie is descended from Sleipnir.

[zachbeacon]

Okie Dokie, Loki.

Now I'm imagining Loki as someone's grandma.

"You know what they say about Loki? God of lies and mischief, bringer of Ragnarok, ....always has hard candy with him"

[arilou_skiff]

Yep, hence the reference.

[cygnia]

My personal favorite...

https://thelastgherkin.deviantart.com/art/Minn-Lagr-Hross-206596630

[zachbeacon]

The above comment made more sense before the original post was changed.

[beyondthefringe]

So Thor's "classic" outfit is basically Asgardian formalwear?

And apparently fashions never change in Asgard, since most everyone in that crowd is wearing the exact same thing they'll be wearing centuries later in the modern era. Hmmm. Immortality breeds stagnation?

[long_silence]

I don't even see why he dislikes wearing his "formal wear" compared to what he was wearing before. They're both black shirts without sleeves, neither looks tighter or more restricting than the other.

Does he not like the helmet?

[shadowpsykie]

kids never like formal wear :D

[kamino_neko]

Thor is the Norse version of Tuxedo Mask!

[mastermahan]

Only useful!

Though if he pops in the middle of one of Jane's fights to chuck a rose and encourage her to not give up, I would genuinely love that.

[zachbeacon]

*Throws hammer at ground*

"Believe in yourself!"

*Vanishes*

[balbanes]

I don't find the lack of fashion change at all surprising. Fashion seems to be mostly driven by young people who want to look different from their parents. If there are no young people, because everyone lives forever...

[every_spiegel]

Oh dear. Jason Aaron has been writing Thor for longer than my longest relationship lasted.
You know it's now very hard to resist asking you whether in your relationships there were: a lot of pink color, unexpected Quentin Quire and Shi'ar Empire appearances, over the top sadistic kids and a whole lot of alcoholic bamfs.
VERY hard to resist.
Sorry :D And thanks for sharing the scans, I might check it out.

[katefan]

Nice art, crap story.

[stubbleupdate]

What was your objection to it?

[katefan]

First of all, the advertising art is misleading in that it suggests the characters will be equals. But in the story we get and Unworthy Thor who has yet to be able to wield the hammer, so right away Jane Foster is his (supposed) superior. Second, while the art is nice it's not sequential, consisting of lots of splash pages that really don't help to explain the story. And parts of the story don't make sense, like when Jane (refuse to call her Thor) shows up and she and Thor get into an argument...and Apocalypse (I...can't believe I spelled his name right the first time.) and his minions just let them. It's ridiculous. I was not in any way, shape or form impressed with what amounted to yet another comic showcasing how awesome the legacy characters (supposedly) are compared to the originals.

And let's be honest, when you look at the current Thor title I get the feeling Jason Aaron is bored with notThor. Is it me or is more time spent on supporting characters than notThor herself? It's like he started off all enthusiastic about this idea but now he's realized Jane Foster has been dying of cancer for a year of comic time now and she's a singularly uninteresting character. I can remember how fascinating he made Thor seem a few years back, but Jane is just...meh. He's even had to introduce "War Thor" to the comic to keep himself awake as this Asgard war goes on...and on...and on...

[stubbleupdate]

The story explicitly begins by saying that being deemed worthy of Mjolnir does not establish superiority or overall quality of character. If you deem a sense of superiority based on that, it comes from a misreading of the text.

The book also shows both Thor's taking inspiration from each other. The Mighty Thor is reminded of her godly duties and her link with Midgard just as the Unworthy Thor is influenced by deeds yet to come. And both characters are shown as equals in combat; the might of Mjolnir is one thing, but Unworthy Thor and Jarnbjorn are not being carried by the Mighty Thor.

As for your comment on pacing and dialogue, that is an inherent problem with the medium of using pictures that capture a moment and suggest the passage of time that does not always match the amount of time taken to say dialogue. The Lake of Fire approach is an option that I might favour, actually.

[katefan]

If it doesn't matter who is wielding the hammer and who isn't then why does the advertising art show them both holding it? And why are the two characters fighting over it on the cover?

And the interpretation you cite flies in the face of what we saw of the hammer for decades, that only someone like Thor, or Captain America (early Cap, not Nazi Cap), beings who represent the highest ideals of what it means to be just, noble and good can only pick it up. Aaron then expanded on this by making the hammer sentient in the pages of Thor, suggesting that there is no unthinking mechanism at play but a being choosing whom it serves. The hammer even posed as notThor in an issue of Thor and spoke to Jane.

So Nick Spencer allowing NaziCap to lift the hammer? Bull. And that little blurb in this comic? Again, bull.

But yeah, maybe you're right and it's not about who has a hammer and who doesn't in the story, maybe I'm too fixated on that. Maybe instead I should look at the characters themselves. Thor spent a long, long time proving himself worthy, he went through trials and tribulations to prove he was a being deserving of that power. He even had to learn humility by being made mortal. His is a true Hero's Journey.

Jane was just given the hammer. And then Aaron said that the hammer works sooooooo much better for her than it ever did for Thor. She was picked by Thor's Mom and told, "Hey, you're a hero now. Go to the front of the line. No trials and tribulations for you." (And yes, I'm aware Jane is suffering from cancer. She's been suffering from cancer for a long....long....loooooooooong time.). In that way notThor's just like RiRi Williams. No suffering in a cave and using your intelligence to build a badass murder machine out of spare parts to save yourself. No, Riri here's your armor, you're a super hero now (By the way, you know what I'd do if I was fifteen years old and somebody gave me an awesome suit of armor that allowed me to defeat my enemies? Go find the guy who killed my friend and Dad. Just sayin'.).

As to the art, if you prefer that medium that's fine, it's to your taste. I find it a failure of the artist to understand how sequential art works.

[stubbleupdate]

What? Are you saying that Lake of Fire is a medium? Or that a splash page is a medium? I'm confused because neither of those things are true.

[katefan]

I never mentioned Lake of Fire in my post above so I don't know where you are getting that. And splash pages are fine in moderation. I just think they're no substitute for sequential art as a story telling medium.

Also, I think it's interesting in that all I said above that was the one thing you focused on. Interesting. It suggests you agree with me completely or you couldn't formulate an effective counter arguments to my points. In either case I'm done with this thread.

[stubbleupdate]

It's not a binary choice.

[balbanes]

It seems your dislike for this comic is mainly driven by your dislike for the current Thor. Which is a very different criticism than attacking the story. My guess is that you would find any story involving the current Thor bad, no matter how expertly crafted.

All of this is fine of course. We like what we like. But it may be helpful to separate dislike of story from dislike of character, for the benefit of those who may not share your feelings on the latter.

[katefan]

I expressed an opinion on the story and was then asked to elaborate on my feelings and opinions which I did. The story was specifically written with notThor and Thor in mind so how can I separate one from the other? Besides, I pointed out some of the elements of the book I disliked that had nothing to do with notThor, which was the artist's style.

If people don't share my views regarding notThor that's fine; you yourself said we like what we like. Are you saying I'm not allowed to express my opinion on characters I don't like? As far as I know I am not violating any site rules doing so. It's a public forum and sometimes people are going to read things they disagree with.

[balbanes]

I am not speaking of what is allowed, but what is considerate. It is considerate to front your dislike of a character for the benefit of anyone considering reading/buying the comic, so they know where you're coming from. Just like it would be considerate for me to acknowledge that (say) I don't like Chinese food in leaving a bad review for a Chinese restaurant. Failing to do so gives the impression of an unbiased review, which is not fair to the reader or the restaurant/comic.

[katefan]

"Front" my dislike? I was up front about my dislike for the character from the get go and I don't know how much more plainly I could have put it other than to say in the very first sentence "I don't like notThor". And I am not going to go around prefacing all my posts by saying things like "For those of you who like Nick Spencer this post might offend you". It's the internet, you're going to meet people who have differing viewpoints and may passionately dislike a thing/person you do. If someone said to me I think Kate Bush' music sucks then I'll shrug and move on. Saying I don't like notThor isn't a personal attack on people who do.

And I'm not here to give unbiased reviews on anything. If I have an opinion on a subject and I feel inclined then I'm going to voice it.

[balbanes]

"Nice art, crap story" fronts your dislike for the character?

I'm not sure what the rest of your post is about, as it's not responding to anything I said. You seem to be carrying over another argument you had with someone else.

[katefan]

You're absolutely right and I was in error; I did not express my dislike for Cosplaynig Thor in the very first post.

As for the rest of my post prior to yours I was, in fact, responding to everything you and you alone said.

[balbanes]

This conversation seems to have run its course. But I invite you to consider the following:

1. I never said or implied I or others were offended by your opinion. I even went out of my way to disclaim any value judgment on your opinion in my first post. ("All of this is fine of course. We like what we like.")

2. Similarly, I did not argue or suggest that not liking Jane was a personal attack on any reader.

3. Nor did I say one should give unbiased reviews or that biased reviews were unwelcome. What I did say was that bias should be fronted, so that those considering purchasing the comic know where you're coming from.

You read all those things into my posts. I suggest you reflect on how that happened.

[tigerkaya]

Oh yeah this uh Generations thing.............. Its gonna be one of those legacy heroes being better than the original isn't it?

Well. #$!& that so long 616, RYV and DC rebirth here I come!!!!

I look forward to Axle Alonso being fired and black listed for life. But that would be wishful thinking.

[stubbleupdate]

I don't think I've seen somebody become so angry so quickly at a product of their own imagination before.

[katefan]

I'm going to be getting on board Wonder Woman once Robinson starts writing it, giving that a chance. And I have heard great things about Super Sons, how the characters are actually written like kids and not tiny adults. Might check out more of the Superman titles.

DC's got some exciting product coming out in a few months, that stuff someone here posted about. I definitely want to get in on that. It's amazing that Marvel is producing 90 titles and so much of it seems so bland. Or spectacularly bad. I am looking forward to America 6 just to see how much worse that title can get.

[tigerkaya]

Oh trust me if that title got any worst it would rival the Atari E.T. mound.

Honestly I've been loving the praise I've heard of the Superman family titles it's part of my wishlist, heck the Batman Metal event actually has me excited for an event!

I feel confused yet excited for a new event after claiming event fatigued! Been loving King's Batman, Deathstroke, Detective Comics, Mister Mirac. It's as if DC remembers comics are important again in order to expand the medium further.

While Marvel is unfortunately stuck up its own @*% trying to sell superficial diversity with none of the quality.

[stubbleupdate]

What sort of diversity would you like to see if you deem the current style as superficial?

[balbanes]

I didn't get that sense. Original Thor is a little miffed that Current Thor can wield Mjolnir while he cannot (yet), but they are shown as equals in battle. To the extent that Original Thor can also summon lightning, which I didn't know he could do without Mjolnir.

If anything, the implication is that Original Thor is the stronger hero. If he's her equal when he doesn't have Mjolnir and she does, then an Original Thor with Mjolnir and a few thousand years more experience-- let's call this Pre-Whisper Thor-- would be more powerful than either of them.

[katefan]

And yet in the pages of Thor notThor is able to do things with the hammer Thor could never do. And notThor is every bit as badass as Thor in the Thor comic without the experience; overnight she is just as much a hero he is without the effort.

As for who the stronger hero is in the story, the fact is Thor is still not worthy even though he's spent many years trying to be so, while Jane Foster was instantly worth to the point where the hammer for the first time ever(!) spoke to her, something it never did with The Real Thor.

Is Thor the superior hero? To my mind most certainly. In this story he isn't shown as being superior enough, in my opinion. notThor should be seen as the novice, with still a lot to learn.

[balbanes]

Well now you're importing your complaints about another title into this one. We're talking about Generations here. And in Generations, the two Thors are shown to be equals in battle.

[katefan]

Oh, well, then, I will for your benefit focus on the craptacular tale at hand.

Thor and notThor are not equals at all in this story; Real Thor is not worthy to wield the hammer, like notThor so he is inferior to her. If the story had taken place in an era where both wielded the hammer (You know, like the ads imply.) then I'd buy the "equal" argument. Real Thor's physical prowess was never in doubt; it the implication of his not wielding the hammer which suggests something lacking in his character.

So yeah, still a lousy story.

[balbanes]

You are waaaaay too hung up on "worthiness." In current continuity, it's not some objective evaluation of character or ability. Recall that Mjolnir was created from the God Tempest, and-- more importantly-- that Mjolnir has been revealed to be sentient. So being deemed "worthy" just means that Mjolnir/the God Tempest likes you.

By way of analogy, that the Phoenix chose to possess/clone Jean Grey does not mean that Charles Xavier is inferior to her, either in telepathic ability (he's not) or in personal character (he's not). It just means that the Phoenix likes redheads. Same with another cosmic force choosing Jane Foster over, say, Odin.

[katefan]

Maybe you're right and I am too hung up on the whole worthiness thing. I mean, Nick Spencer have largely turned it into a joke, haven't they, with NaziCap being able to lift the hammer and Jane getting to be Thor without any effort. So yeah, maybe in this current continuity with these hack writers I should just give up and move on.

Oh. Wait. I already did. Months ago. Marvel hasn't seen a cent from me in quite a while but fortunately I'm able to keep tabs via this web site and various reviewers on Youtube. And I haven't missed a single thing.

It still doesn't mean I can't be angry and/or frustrated with what has gone on, though. Being "worthy" meant something once in the comics and now apparently it doesn't. And if "worthiness" does mean something to mean and it doesn't to the writers then I'm going to be a little miffed and express that opinion when I feel the urge.

[squarepole]

Does this comic go into any more detail about the giant flying goat? I really want to know more about the giant flying goat.

[stubbleupdate]

Toothgnasher and Toothgrinder are Thor's war goats that pull his chariot. When they ride across the heavens, you get thunder.

[squarepole]

Ha! Thanks. I had no idea. Really need to read up on my norse mythology. Or read more Thor comics.

[onsokumaru]

This was a "Thor and Thor help vikings kill people, destroy monuments and loot stuff on a foreign land" episode.

[malitia]

I think there was a Loki appearance in this to claim he orchestrated the raid. Jane hit him. I don't think anybody objected to the opportunity to kill, destroy, and loot otherwise.