UNCANNY X-MEN #445: Logan regrets and Kurt & Ororo remember

[starwolf_oakley]

UNCANNY X-MEN #445 was during Chris Claremont's run with Alan Davis, after the end of the Grant Morrison era. It covers the idea of the X-Men going "legit" with the X.S.E., mixed with Wolverine showing genuine regret over killing someone (?) and Nightcrawler and Storm reminiscing over their early days on the team.

There is also some discussion over Charles Xavier's selection process for mutants to join the X-Men.





No, Charlie did not recruit on a "whim." In fact, Warren was already a sort-of superhero when Xavier had Scott and Bobby recruit him.



Again, Claremont tries to explain the reason the X-Men are hated and feared while other superheroes aren't.
"The monsters in their genes."

And Quesada thought they best way to fix this would be for ALL superheroes to be hated and feared. Apparently because of Tall Poppy Syndrome that's connected more to morality than super powers.

Sage, also known as Tessa, does some media scanning.



The X-Men becoming "legitimate cops" is an interesting plot point.





I thought this was going to be a reference to when Ororo was in her "clothing optional" phase when she first joined the X-Men. Guess not.

Ororo is talking about UNCANNY X-MEN #101. Back then, Kurt used the Image Inducer to look like Errol Flynn.

Comments

[sarahnewlin]

I miss Sage

[kd_the_movie]

Her power set was kind of vague but I liked her in the role of "Ops Controller"/"Guy in the Chair" if you've seen Spiderman Homecoming. superhero comics need more leaders like that, especially since Oracle is gone.

[tripodeca113]

Wasn't Wolverine part of a secret original X-Men team?

[mastermahan]

That was a fever dream. Like Batman: Odyssey, or most anything else Neal Adams writes these days.

[katefan]

Who is that smoking hot blonde in the domino mask talking to Wolverine? I don't think she's an active super hero these days is she?

[riddler13]

That's Carol Danvers, a.k.a. Ms. Marvel

[katefan]

No, it can't be. Carol Danvers looks so much more manly than that.

[icon_uk]

I'm not quite sure what point was being raised here, but "manly"?

[katefan]

Feigned obtuseness is not a good look on you. But hey, I'll play along. Carol Danvers is short haired, squared jawed, broad shouldered and flat chested, I would even go so far as to say her hips aren't nearly as shapely as they once were. The combined whole (Combined, mind you. I did say "combined".) lends to a look that some would describe as "manly".

[bruinsfan]

Shorted haired is the only one of these I'd agree with as a deliberate change to the character's status quo—anything else is down to individual artists' interpretations.

[starwolf_oakley]

I've wondered if the Kree Psyche Magnitron (also called the Magic Alien Wishing Machine) changed Carol in more ways than similar powers to Mar-Vell.

Maybe Carol has a subconscious understanding of Kree politics and tactics, which is why she's more driven to be "in charge."

[katefan]

I don't mind Carol wanting to be more in charge; she was an editor back in the day and was (Or still is? Not sure if her commission is active.) and Air Force colonel so I think those days after she was attacked by Rogue and lost her way had a long lasting effect that only in recent years has been reversed as she overcame her alcoholism.

And hey, I can understand her wanting to wear a less revealing costume because she thinks people will take her more seriously. It's the shortened hair and less curvy frame that I disagree with. Storm as leader of the X-Men was always sexy and it never made me take her any less seriously as a leader.

[katefan]

And it's those interpretations I have issue with. We saw in the first issue of Captain Marvel's current series that at least that artist knows how to draw more full figured women but chose not to when they showed that actor who was going to play Carol in the television series. I prefer my women to be drawn in a certain manner, one in which Marvel editorial does not like.

[q99]

Hm, I'd say she's normally curvy, but she was *especially* curvy back when she wore this costume.

[katefan]

I don't think she was more or less curvy than many Marvel super heroines in those days. But these days she's not very curvy at all.

[q99]

She did become less pronounced when she switch to Captain Marvel outfit, but even there I wouldn't call her flat under most artists. Example

[katefan]

What is that pic from? Honestly that looks like somebody from Deviant Art.

[q99]

Cover of the first issue where she took the costume.

[katefan]

Really? Wow, that's just bad for a professional artist. What year was that? There's been so many issue ones that it's hard to keep track. There was the issue 1 from 2016, then the one from 2014, so it had to be, what, 2012? Yeah, they were still drawing her feminine back then.

[laughing_tree]

Why does it matter whether she is or not? It's like saying a movie's bad because the actor's unattractive. Unless their attractiveness is an important element of the story, what kind of critique is that?

Diversity of all kinds is good -- diverse backgrounds, diverse personalities, diverse ethnicities, and yes, diverse body types.

[katefan]

Comics are a visual medium, so art is as equal a selling point as the writing. I feel much of the art being presented by Marvel these days is sub standard compared to what was seen in recent years. As for diverse body types, Carol was drawn with a different body type years ago and now she and others are drawn with a different one now, one I personally find less appealing.

[laughing_tree]

Film's a visual medium too, but no one's about to criticize a movie for its actors being ugly. We're not talking about bad art, we're talking about art that depicts people as less than gorgeous.

There is more diversity in body types in comics these days than in the past. Folks like Frank Cho and Alan Davis -- who drew these same pages -- still work at Marvel. As do the likes of Erica Henderson. And everything in-between.

[q99]

Agreed.

[icon_uk]

Seeking clarification is not feigning obtuseness.

I would note that describing whether a woman looks "manly" or otherwise is hardly conducive to the ethos of scans_daily, a flat chest and a square jaw make one no less feminine, and slim hips make one no less masculine.

Says she's more broad shouldered than you're used to if you like, but not "manly" please.

[katefan]

Point taken. No insult was intended to anyone possessing that kind of body.

And apologies for the smart assed comment.

[mesmiranda]

The tragedy is overwhelming.

[katefan]

Indeed.

[mesmiranda]

https://data.whicdn.com/images/178845839/superthumb.jpg

[kd_the_movie]

Ok ill bite, are you implying Marvel couldn't reconcile the idea of having their "flagship" female Superhero being portrayed in a costume that wasn't "practical" or remotely revealing?

[cyberghostface]

I’ve actually gotten that impression from them with Carol and Jessica Drew’s new costumes.

[katefan]

I don't mind them changing the costume; the idea that they were thinking ahead as to how Carol's costume would translate to a real world live action super hero film is quite possible. It's how Carol fills out the costume and the short hair that I object to.

[nightauditguy]

You can cut the sexual tension between Ororo and Kurt with a knife. You would have thought they would have hooked up at some point.

[icon_uk]

IIRC Claremont was certainly turning up the chemistry between them, with a rather passionate smooch between them at one point.

[icon_uk]

Wolverine feeling guilt over having to kill a kid whose power is both completely destructive to others and out of control is certainly a dramatic story to tell.

But it's one that requires you to ignore the countless ways of nullifying mutant powers that the X-Men have encountered over the years.

From numerous power-dampening collars and the like, to Leech's proximity, to Dr Rao's cure. Having a telepath on hand who could have shut their mind down long distance might also have been handy/

[xakko]

I don't remember the story well, but I would guess that the XSE would have been responding as if there were an active shooter - sending in Logan, Kurt and Ororo. Is Rachel the only XSE telepath at this point? She may have been on another assignment.

But yeah, comics, particularly X-comics, need to make a decision about the efficacy of nullifiers. Do they need to be fine tuned to a specific individual, and how quickly do they work? Safe, instant shut down collars that affect all super-powered individuals, or even all mutants is a game breaker.

I get not exposing the minor Leech to a hostile situation, and understand the X-men not embracing Rao's "cure" (particularly Wolverine) but i agree that it isn't not too out of bounds to ask that we get an explanation why lethal force was the only choice here aside from "it's the dramatic beat we were going for"

[bruinsfan]

Certainly Magneto has used widely-effective mutant inhibitors in his villainous phases, ones so effective they even worked on the Phoenix while it believed itself to be Jean Grey (though that iteration scrambled people's brains so thoroughly they were reduced to a simulation of infancy). I believe I've only seen the technology fail on two occasions, both of them involving Charles Xavier's telepathy (and in one of them he was astrally projecting into an inhibitor field, so there was no physical brain for it to act upon).

[xakko]

in that case, weren't the X-men captured (rendered unconscious?) giving the chance for Magneto to fine tune the device to the individual X-men? that's more plausible, if that's the right word, and something that doesn't cause as problems as a collar that gets slapped around any mutant's neck and shuts them down.

[bruinsfan]

That was true for the time he captured the X-Men in his Antarctic base, but I want to say the generalized inhibitor field on Asteroid M worked against X-Men he wasn't prepared for (or even aware of).

[reveen]

Geez, whats gotten into Wolvie? Usually he absolutely cannot wait to stab a teenager to death over theoretical bad things happening. It's his favourite part of the day.

Oh right, Chris Claremont.

[starwolf_oakley]

Claremont tried to make Wolverine "mature" about killing people. Like, he wouldn't stab you if you got mouthy. Yes, that led to Logan stabbing Rachel in the chest so Rachel wouldn't wouldn't kill Selene. But that was a special case or something.

[katefan]

It was Claremont trying to get Rachel off the X-Men team and into eXcalibur (or however it was spelled) in a sloppy fashion. I remember that inspired me to write my first letter to Marvel, it was an impassioned five page rant about how much I disliked the direction the comic was taking. Wasn't published, sadly.

My letter to Neil Gaiman concerning the Books of Magic, how Zatanna looked like Kate Bush was. I remembered being proud and thrilled it got printed.

[icon_uk]

It was intended to get Rachel into her own planned mini-series which never came to fruition

Excalibur as a title wouldn't come along until over two years after Rachel's exit in X-Men #207 and she was MIA that entire time.

[katefan]

That I did not know. Time blurs one's memory and it seemed the Excalibur came out less than a year or so after Rachel left the X-Men. But yeah, the whole Trickster storyline and Kitty Pryde losing control of her powers, and X-Men vs. Fantastic Four happened all before Excalibur came out.

[icon_uk]

I vaguely remembered reading about it at the time, but was just annoyed they'd taken Rachel out like that and the rest of the X-Men didn't seem to care.

Logan stabbing Rachel to prevent her committing rage fuelled murder I could. reluctantly understand, as a Phoenix who learns the fun of killing has a bad precedent in his memory. I had more of an issue with A) him leaving Rachel to bleed out in the middle of the park, and B) That Logan didn't then take the opportunity to kill Selene himself because he'd have no moral qualms about killing someone like her and it wasn't like Rachel didn't have a point.

[katefan]

Okay, yeah, there I can see your point. As a wielder of the Phoenix force Rachel making a habit of killing could be pretty scary. I guess Chris needed to explain that a bit more via exposition as the other X-Men explained to Kitty what they had seen, explained what Jean had done. I don't think anybody really told Kitty Jean...well, Jean at the time, before the retcon...had done to an entire star system. Explaining how Rachel is the inheritor of all that terrible power and the fears they had would have made for some good dialogue.

But yeah, you're right, nobody seemed to care much about Rachel being gone. Mojo putting a, well, mojo on them to make them not care would have actually been a good plot point.

As for Wolverine not killing Selene...I think the idea Claremont was going with at that point was the X-Men did not kill. Ever. That Wolverine was trying to live up to that ethical standard. Claremont had shown Logan had grown quite a bit over the years, there was some great character development. And I can see to an extent the rationality in having a no killing stance. You're good guys, you're supposed to act like it and set an example. And once your enemies see how casually you kill then what's to stop them from being just as merciless? I'm not saying Shaw and company aren't above murder but up until that point no Hellfire Club member had slain an X-Man or vice versa (Not for Wolverine's lack of trying, mind you.). Once that line is crossed then it becomes a blood feud.