Astro City #49 - "Resistance"

[laughing_tree]

Just saw someone complaining that they’ve been a Marvel reader for over 40 years, and they have no interest in the books today because of the politics, that the books should go back to like they were, with no politics. Which makes me wonder what he was reading 40+ years ago. I mean, if he doesn’t think the current books are well-done, that’s one thing, and he’d certainly be entitled to his opinion. But if he’s been reading the books for over 40 years, that means he started before 1977. So we’re talking the stridently feminist MS. MARVEL, Captain America having been Nomad (where Nixon and Exxon were the villains) before taking on entitled elitists who wanted to rule over the little people. Thor took on banana-republic dictators, there were multiple stories inspired by the Watts riots, the Sub-Mariner was in a permanent ecological snit, and more. We’re talking the heyday of Englehart, Gerber, Moench, McGregor and others, of reflexive anti-corporate stories, of flat-out anti-racist feminist stories where even Tony Stark was a liberal. You can like or dislike what you want, but the idea that the Seventies were apolitical is mind-boggling. -- Kurt Busiek















After some extensive digging, she finally uncovers that her dad was last seen working on a secret scientific research project at Sterling Industries:

Comments

[zylly]

It’s not that comics used to be less political... the readers who claim that were simply too young or too oblivious to see the metaphors.

[penguinzero]

And I'm pretty sure there were fans at the time complaining about the politics in Ms. Marvel or Green Lantern/Green Arrow and wishing comics would go back to the 'apolitical' versions of their childhood -- when Superman was punishing slumlords and Captain America punched a certain world leader in the face right on the cover of his comic. Superheroes have been steeped in politics since the beginning, and a lot of the best versions embrace that.

[cyberghostface]

I wouldn't argue that comics were ever apolitical but it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that the level of strawmanning and soapboxing in stuff like Spencer's work is representative of how comics have always been (and yes I'm aware of the propaganda in WW2). At minimum it's far more heavy-handed now and done with far less grace. I remember Civil War being pretty political for example but it wasn't nearly as in your face as Spencer's stuff.

[reveen]

Lol Superhero comics have always made points on social issues other the exact opposite of grace.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/10/northstar_gay.gif

https://fsmedia.imgix.net/8b/e7/f6/16/5956/4275/aaa0/f90e15becf00/the-green-arrow-in-his-more-politically-active-days-with-the-green-lantern-in-the-70s.jpeg

It's almost like superheroes are a genre intended for children with a heavy degree of moral didaticism where the characters are literally anthropomorphic embodiments of ethical concepts.

But it only counts as heavy handed when it's about women and poc and not when it's about "With great power comes great respomsibility"?

[cyberghostface]

I’m not seeing how either are as overtly heavy handed as Spencer’s stuff. Melodramatic maybe but comics generally are.

Are you really trying to imply that the only reason why someone would think NuMarvel is ott because they are racist or sexist?

[sanctaphrax]

Spencer writes poorly. At least when politics are involved.

But that doesn't mean heavily-political comics shouldn't exist. It just means that Spencer shouldn't be writing them.

The difference between Green Arrow's speech and the stuff Spencer put in Captain America isn't that one is more political than the other. It's that one is written better than the other.

[cyberghostface]

True, I guess I didn’t consider that.

[laughing_tree]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/26/ValkyrieAvengers83.png

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/left-winger/4005-40767/

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_rVlYmYabaos/SwoDAS6NkgI/AAAAAAAABAw/YujXGK_Tu3Q/s1600/clinton.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-IT249R3BieQ/UMJhbuJkxpI/AAAAAAAAAo0/KWDqybZzu4M/s400/gc.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_bdVR-JIDi2g/SsF_-ISeZQI/AAAAAAAAPH0/duBEgeTZXTY/s1600-h/well-done,-dr.+kissinger!.jpeg

[cyberghostface]

And Joker was ambassador of Iran at point. I know.

[lego_joker]

Now isn't that a bit splitting hairs? Melodrama is inherently heavy-handed, is it not?

[cyberghostface]

Not in the context I am talking about.

[bruinsfan]

Some of it is that in decades past, the writers learned how to write from the wider fields of literature and journalism. I think too many comics writers these days learned to write solely from reading comics, which does not lend itself to presenting issues in a subtle and nuanced way.

[philippos42]

There have always been both political comics and apolitical comics. Spencer's Cap run had some very bad ideas, I think. But expecting Captain America not to be political to the point of awkward earnestness is asking for disappointment.

[starwolf_oakley]

The political stuff at Marvel was VERY strong in the 1970s. In the 1980s and 1990s, I'm not sure. Mostly "Racism is bad" and "Massive environmental polution" is bad.

The X-Books usually had Genosha as a semi-topical political allegory. With "humans turned mutants into brainwashed slaves" to show "Aparteid is wrong."

[icon_uk]

Genosha was entirely topical in the 80's when various Western Governments' refusal to condemn Apartheid was a definite thing.

[starwolf_oakley]

Here's a link to an essay expressing disdain about the Power Pack kids getting political.

https://themiddlespaces.com/2015/12/22/power-pack-says-crack-is-wack/

Ann Nocenti's DAREDEVIL run had political stuff in it, including a brawl at a peace march. Nocenti isn't very subtle.

https://ic.pics.livejournal.com/starwolf_oakley/11581300/733892/733892_900.jpg

[icon_uk]

I remember TRASH.... subtle they were not.

[commodus]

Comic books have pretty much always been political, going right back to the days when superheroes would sock Hitler in the mouth.
Just because you don't like what's being said, it doesn't mean writers should stop using the medium to say it. Though I do like a balance between the serious stuff and the far sillier stories,

[icon_uk]

Leaving the quote to one side, this is another fine story from Astro City, with a unique concept at it's core.

[zachbeacon]

Wasn't Captain America created by two Jewish guys BEFORE the US got into WW2? Nope, no political message there.

Actually, "Nazis are bad and we should stop ignoring them and do something about them" is a message we needed more of THIS year.

[o4owesome.blogspot.com]

Astro City. Right in the feels. Every damn time.

I'm of the school that you can absolutely mix politics and comics... fuck, two of the medium's greatest works, V for Vendetta and Watchmen are massively political and all the better for it.

Art, great art, speaks to our wider culture and our hopes and dreams and fears for our society, and one of the ways those hopes and dreams and fears manifest is in our political discourse. By cutting off comics from the political realm, you're kneecapping a medium that we all want to see grow and expand and flourish.

Of course, comics should be good, and if a comic is cack-handed in its treatment of the material, it should be called out as a bad comic, not as having politics-cooties.

[glprime]

Just caught up on Astro City and hot-diggity-damn, still so good.