Superman/Batman #5

[history79]

Comments

[thatnickguy]

Uuuuuuugh. This was so much fun back when it came out, but it really doesn't hold up to any scrutiny or time. Ed McGuinness' art is the one saving grace in all this because, well, it's Ed McGuinness.

But what bothers me most is this is the culmination of the President Luthor story. What should've been the start of years of amazing stories amounted to small handful of stories focused on it. The rest were mostly just token appearances you could swap any character with for playing the president. Endlessly missed potential.

And it all culminates in...Luthor snapping, putting on power armor, and tying it in with Infinite Crisis.

Ugh.

[crinos]

Yep, a remind this is what the President Luthor storyline was leading up to. All this time. Luthor injecting himself with Kryptonite Steroids, climbing into his old power armor, and picking a fight with Batman and Superman.

They made an animated movie out of this.

[mastermahan]

For me, the worst part of the end to the plotline is that President Lex was Loeb's story from the start. It's not like he wanted to sweep someone else's status quo out of the way, he just couldn't be bothered coming up with a decent ending for his own story.

[crinos]

I feel like there are a couple of ways you could go about doing a good ending for a President Luthor style story. Off the top of my head:

*Luthor just finishes out his term and doesn't seek reelection. No big scheme, no destroy Superman plot, he just wanted to do it to add it as a notch on his belt and to rub it in Superman's face whenever he can.

*Someone tries to assassinate Luthor, putting him into a coma. Naturally the suspicion falls on Superman because, well, obviously. And Supes and Bats team up to try and figure out who really did it while being hunted by the Suicide Squad or whoever. turns out it was Manchester Black/Cyborg Superman/ another Superman foe hoping to discredit Supes (Or, alternatively, it was a crazed Superman Fan who also knew that Luthor was a bad guy and was trying to "Help"). Anyways after Luthor recovers he decides the job is more trouble than its worth and does not seek a second term.

*Luthor actually pulls a full on heel face turn. I mean Luthor was President during more than a couple apocalyptic events: Our Worlds at War, Last Laugh, Virtue and Vice (Where he was possessed by Despero, and even thanked Superman and the others for freeing him from his control), fighting all those horrors, and having to work closely with the JLA and other heroes during these crises, could maybe make Luthor step back and take a look at his life and decide to do better.

But nope, we got the story where he injects himself with Kryptonite and picks a fight with Supes and Batman. Which I don't think you need to be President to do but whatever.

[zylly]

As I recall, the Luthor was President plot was at least partially derailed off its original direction due to 9/11.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

"But nope, we got the story where he injects himself with Kryptonite and picks a fight with Supes and Batman. Which I don't think you need to be President to do but whatever."

That's completely utterly wrong.

He injected himself with Venom too. Ya know, Batman's kryptonite?

Because he might be able to throw down with Superman, but he needs an extra boost to handle Batman's strength.

[ozaline]

I think there was some intention to make a point here. The storyline also had him making a deal with Darksied though it was a low key thing.

Luthor's xenophobia and paranoia ramp up to levels where he makes questionable alliances, and wastes time and resources in futile battles against perceived enemies that aren't even a threat. There is a point there, not a very nuanced one, but it's there.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Was this really tied into Infinite Crisis, though?

From what I recall, when Luthor showed up in Crisis, Alexander's brainwaves were stated to be making him stupid, Luthor gets insulted and then bails. He shows up again later to kill Alexander, somehow no longer dumb.

I kinda took that to be a swipe at this story

[thatnickguy]

It did. They changed that last panel from..something else. I can't remember what. But it specifically referred to "a Crisis." And then during one of the recap comics leading up to Infinite Crisis (I think in Countdown to Infinite Crisis or one of the trades), it specifically pointed it out as a plot point.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Seems more like a token gesture by the editors more than anything, really.

IIRC, Harbringer was killed in the Supergirl arc after this one.

[lordultimus]

Oh yeah, Cir-El was a thing.

[crinos]

Hey, I liked this Supergirl. Honestly I kind of wished she had stuck around.

I mean, Lois and Clark's daughter from the future is too awesome a concept not to keep around. I think the only iteration of Supergirl I may like better is the one where Mr. Mxysptlk just shows up one day and magics up a baby for Lois and Clark as a way to apologize for being an asshole for all those years.

[lordultimus]

Yeah, that one was worth it just for the Calvin and Hobbes homage.

[lucean]

I as well. I think a huge problem they keep having with Kara is that, because of her background, she almost inadvertently comes across as this lesser Superman copy, while Cir-El actually had a more unique vibe to her and had a more dynamic relationship with Clark and Lois.

I mean, if these Superman/Batman keep going, we are going to see the return of Kara. And especially in retrospect, man was she doomed from the word go.

[ozaline]

I never bought that argument. Kara is an interesting character in her own respect because while she is of course similar to Superman, she relates to her Kryptonian heritage differently actually having lived it. That angle is enough to make her interesting.

What made the first 30-ish issues of her series after being spun-off of Superman/Batman a hot mess was the "is she evil? Was her Dad evil" story that kept being a retcon waffle. If they played up the stranger in an strange world angle, as they have since the New 52 (and since New Krypton to a lesser extent) it would, and has been more enjoyable.

[scorntx]

Let's be fair, those early issues were also a hot mess because Kara was just an awful, unpleasant and badly written character.

[ozaline]

Oh true. I just kinda think they are one and the same issue... all her bratiness, apathy whatever was going on that month seemed to stem from the whole drama of not knowing if she was good or evil. Kryptonite blood poisoning is the best retcon ever.

[lucean]

I keep being reminded how utterly horrible Loeb's run on S/B was and we haven't gotten to truly bad stuff yet with these scans. Also Loeb's decision to dispatch Hawkman and Captain Marvel off-panel remains as confounding now as it was back then.

Something I had completely forgotten was that not only was Batman completely fine with Supes killing Luthor, but Loeb wrote an internal monologue basically removing any doubt about this being Batman just playing mindgames.

[goattoucher]

Once, in a Marvel Age comic, they had a faux news article about a number of super-heroic men (Cap, Hawekeye, Havok, etc...) who were all blonde. It showed the exact same image something like eight times. Good gag.

I understand that it was a trope of the silver age that Batman and Superman could impersonate each other, but really, all tall, muscular, black haired men do -not- look alike. For as long as Luthor has obsessed over Superman, do you think he would not recognize him just because he put Captain Marvel's togs on?

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Ugh, hate to think this...

But does this mean Superman left a naked Captain Marvel behind?

Eww, eww, eww!

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

Not scanned, the stupid reason the Superman/Batman family is invading the White House.

Luthor leaked information saying that he had Batman and Superman. Said families invaded the White House to rescue them (because that's where they'd keep them?), having been lured by Luthor.

Now captured, Luthor demands that the people who invaded the White House to rescue Bats/Supes tell him where they are. But if they knew that already...why did they invade the White House?

[lucean]

...How can this story be so stupid? I think actively blanked out so much of this from my mind.

[trooper924]

Oh god, all these years and I never realized that.

[goattoucher]

"No. I am -not-."

Chills.

Who is she.

[gwhh]

Who the woman with dark hair and the red S on her chest on the cover of this issue?

Re: Who is she.

[crinos]

That is Cir-El, she was the Super Girl at the time. She claimed to be the daughter of Clark and Lois from the future, but I think in reality she was a clone created by Brainiac with artificial memories or something.

[captainbellman]

"Fap", goes Luthor's hand as he grabs the hard steel rod.

[gnarll]

Batman: "We could make it look like an accident"

Batman.