Deathstroke Annual 2018 - "An Innocent Man"

[laughing_tree]

[In the black church] pastors simply cannot risk seeming reasonable. They've got to be harsh judges in order to maintain their credibility. Even arranging a fair and balanced forum to exchange views and pray together, would seem by their uneducated and ignorant congregants as a capitulation to sin. And rather than challenge that mindset, many if not most pastors simply perpetuate it. Homosexuality is, to many black Church Folk, the greatest sin, worse even than murder. -- Christopher J. Priest

















While Deathstroke and Terra are on their mission, back at Defiance HQ Kid Flash checks in on Power Girl...

Comments

mod Note!

[icon_uk]

This comic is less than 4 weeks old and so is subject to the 4 page rule. Please trim appropriately immediately, or it will be deleted.

Re: mod Note!

[laughing_tree]

The next issue of Deathstroke already came out yesterday, and it's a direction continuation from this one.

Re: mod Note!

[icon_uk]

Fair enough then, thanks.

[superfangirl1]

Is that suppose to be pre-flash point power girl? If so awesome.

[mastermahan]

Well, gee, Tanya, maybe you should have told someone what you were up to, or left a note, or something. This is why Granny Weatherwax had her "I ATEN'T DEAD" sign.

[scorntx]

Hey, not everyone can be as smart as Granny Weatherwax.

[bmaryott]

...that is not the way the hammer works on an automatic weapon. It's already back from the last round. If it's forward it can't actually fire.

[joetuss]

Must be Thursday, because CHURCH AND RELIGION ARE BAD!!! 😧

[icon_uk]

They certainly can be, yes, especially if your life happens to not correspond to what some religions believe.

[shadowpsykie]

yeah but I think the main issue here (and this is coming as a gay catholic) Tanya said nothing about Joey being gay, she said she didn't like him brining hookups over. She had an issue with pre marital sex. this who issue required several things. Tanya, Adeline, and Joey all came off as either speaking unintelligently, or jumping to conclusions. If Tanya didn't mean his sexuality (and I don't think she did) she should have corrected Adeline. Adeline and Joey both jumped to the conclusion that she was upset at him for being gay, and Tanya assumed the guy joey brought was a hook up. all of that happening at once made the whole issue come off as messy.

[long_silence]

First of all the fact that Tanya assumes that Joey and Terrence have hooked up just because they're both men speaks to a bias.

And she hasn't voiced any such concerns with underaged Rose living at the Defiance base with her "husband". I can't recall if Tanya's said anything to Terra after her numerous comments about her sexual exploits.
Not to mention Tanya didn't seem to have any problem when she was living with the Teen Titans where Wonder Girl was hooking up with Red Robin or Superboy, or Kid Flash was hooking up with Solstice, and God knows what else because I couldn't keep reading that book.

And right before Joseph confronted her she tried to hookup with Wally.

So I don't think Adeline or Joseph are wrong to assume that when she pretexts her complaint with "I'm a Christian" that it's code for "I don't like men having sex with men in my home"

If her complaint was about premarital sex between two consenting adults occurring in her home then she really screwed her delivery when she singled out Joseph, when almost everyone else she's lived with has had premarital sex

[shadowpsykie]

but that's not Tanya's fault as a character, or as a religious character. that's Priest's fault for being heavy handed with his religious paint brush and none too subtle with his characterizations. he is ignoring her background as a character and painting her as a "Narrow minded Christian"

[long_silence]

You can't defend her character by saying "she's not homophobic, she was just uncomfortable about premarital sex" and then when confronted with proof that she's encountered premarital sex between underaged heterosexuals but said nothing, jump and blame the writer.

I don't think Priest even meant this as an attack on Tanya's character. It's just continuing his arc for her where she takes her religion too literally to her own detriment. She didn't even want to take the Pill which her doctor prescribed her for intense menstrual cramps because the Church banned contraceptives even though she wouldn't be using them for that purpose. Deathstroke took advantage of her faith by saying that Jesus preached forgiveness, pretty much forcing Tanya to forgive him after he killed her dog.
And her feelings towards Joseph's sexuality are probably similar "you can like men, but you can't have sex with them and it can't be in my home or that would be like I'm encouraging your sinning"

So yeah she's mildly homophobic, that doesn't make her a bad character. She's just young and naive and easily influenced, she's 16 and follows the Church's interpretation of the Bible literally and is still learning to think for herself, and she hasn't figured out how to reconcile the two yet.

But pretending that she isn't homophobic at all and that no Christian character should be conflicted isn't doing her any favors. It's clearly part of her character arc.

[shadowpsykie]

that's not what I am doing. My knowledge of this comic comes from the images seen here on S_D. And from what I have seen of this, and what I know of Priest (he is a strong writer, when working on solo characters. but tends to broad paint on groups as per this and JL). So I was not aware of what he had done with her Literallness on religion. Just what I have seen here.

I feel like the message would be stronger if (yeah I read the actual series cover to cover, but I don't have the money for that anymore) he gave us several different views on religion. We have the Priest, Tanya, and Slade. But what about Joey's views. Deathstroke seems like he is trying, but is using religion to justify his personal mindset, Tanya is naïve in taking texts literally (hell it's how Deathstroke wormed his way in) and the Priest is...a ghost? and evil shapeshifter, I admit I got confused there.

my point is, it's all scattered and no central focus on the topic of religion (only that people tend to use it to justify their actions or their own beliefs, or what they want to believe) nothing beyond a utilitarian view of religion and id like to see SOMEONE talking about the actual spirit of religion rather than religion as a utility.

does this make sense? it's not that I am against negative depictions of religion, because as a gay latino I an very aware of the downside of religious institutions, but still consider myself a catholic (in a spiritual sense, not a political one) and would like to see a counter point.

(and again, if one HAS been stated, i'm sorry I am only going off what has been printed here..)

[joetuss]

If your place of worship doesn't make EVERYONE feel welcome, then God does not dwell in that Church, and the leaders of that Church don't have the power of God's word. That's what i was taught my whole life. What Priest said is the complete opposite of my experiences with Church, and religion, so which one of us is the authority on the subject? I judge the character of the individual, not the group they belong to. Awsome sweeping generalization by him btw.

[laughing_tree]

Priest is an ordained and practicing minister. He’s been involved with black churches his whole life. That quote is from his website, which is literally called Praisenet.org. So yeah, I think he’s speaking from a position of considerable authority on the subject.

[shadowpsykie]

but what is his message? he's playing and dabbling in religion, not in a subtle way either, but I don't see what his message is.

[icon_uk]

That just because Tanya is a hero does not mean she is an all round paragon. That she is not accepting of gay lifestyles or casual hookups.

[joetuss]

Yup...He's been to every single Church in the world, including mine, so he knows all there is to know about every damn thing. My grandfather was a Pastor for 42 years until his death, and he would tell the exact opposite story that Priest is telling here, ...but yeah, no, I'll believe what Priest is saying because he is THE AUTHORITY OVER ALL THINGS RELIGION and nobody else's experiences count but his.

[laughing_tree]

I've received email from brothers and sisters from around the country chastising me for comments made here. “Look, you so-called ‘preacher,’ I don’t know what kind of church you go to, but here in [insert your city], our churches and pastors are not like that…” Sure they are. And most of those people proved it by being hostile and insulting—two things a Christian should never be. It’s fine to disagree with me, but most email I get is hostile and insulting, sent from people claiming to be followers of Jesus Christ. Bottom line: if the observations and criticism here do not apply to you or your ministry, I am then obviously not talking about you. I pray your church in your town is, in fact, the shining example of Christian conduct. But, I don’t live in your town. I live in mine. And this is what’s going on here.

-- Christopher J. Priest

[joetuss]

Had he said, IN MY CHURCH, or even, THE CHURCHES I HAVE VISITED, I wouldn't have had any issues with the quote, but he said THE BLACK CHURCH,and BLACK CHURCH FOLK, which would understandably incur some anger, because those are broad statements...and the whole "If I'm not talking about you personally, you shouldn't take offense" Is weak a hell. If I said something negative about Women, Latinos, or any other group, in the manner he spoke of Black Churches, and Black Church Folk, all hell would break loose in here, and rightfully so. I don't agree at all with people hurling insults at him, he's absolutely right in saying that it's not Christian like, and it's despicable, but you just can't make a sweeping generalization like that, and not expect anger from that community.

[icon_uk]

So which one of us is the authority on the subject?

Honestly? The one who can point to more examples of religious fundamentalism and intolerance in a variety of faiths and denominations for time spans that stretch over centuries?

[joetuss]

Well, by that logic, I should hate all white people with a fierce passion. I don't disagree that Church, and Religion can, and have been used against people, my problem is this assumption that anyone who practices a religion, or anyone that is attached to a church, is small minded bigot. My God loves ALL people...I was taught tolerance/humanity at home, and in the 3 churches I've attended throughout my years. I find it very unlikely that these places of worship are the only ones of their mind.

[quatoria]

I mean, quite frankly, if you did, I couldn't fucking blame you. People can hate their oppressors. We can disagree on the wisdom of it, but it's one of the most understandable things in the world, y'know? The problem is in the oppression, not in the hatred people feel towards those who persecute them.

[oakie620]

Does this mean the Earth-2 stories are no longer canon?

Either way, as much as I'm a fan of Karen, this really doesn't feel like the right time or the right book to bring her back.

[beyondthefringe]

And how does this relate to the Kara/Power Girl we've seen in Harley Quinn or in Green Lanterns?

[kamino_neko]

Honestly, I just assume the more recent appearances in HQ are hallucinations.

Has she had more appearances in Green Lanterns than the cameo in this week's issue (I skipped a bunch in order to get caught up)...if not, I'ma just assume that cameo happens after this.

[theflames]

What is Tanya's relationship with Deathstroke here? why is she on the team...

[icon_uk]

She appears to be financing the whole thing.