Superman/Batman #13

[history79]

Comments

[lucean]

I had utterly, and most likely willfully, forgotten how horrible the initial Supergirl costume design was. Like that is ultra-skeezy.

Then to my biggest pet peeve about this story, which is actually meta in nature. For years after this, when bashing how overpowered Batman was presented and all the Batgod stuff, people kept throwing that Darkseid fight from this story as an evidence how they had Batman hold his own against Darkseid or something like that, which actively ignored what actually happened in that scene.

However, that wasn't even my biggest issue about using that scene as nobody ever bothered mentioning how Diana was blocking Omega beams and Superman was essentially slapping Darkseid around, which both were, for me, much bigger problems than Batman being pummelled to the ground by Darkseid.

[lucean]

As kind of a sidenote, it's really weird to look back now on Loeb. Back then I adored Long Halloween, even if the twist was impossible, and really liked Dark Victory. Then Hush happened, which is still one of the most insanely stupid big Batman stories, with Superman/Batman following.

Now, I've often heard certain points made that Loeb's flaws were already there in those prior works, which is true, but by this time it almost felt like there was no one controlling Loeb, no editorial direction at all, and he just let it loose.

[cyberghostface]

I think a lot of it had to do with the Jim Lee hype running the story. Granted I suppose TLH/DV was a showcase to Tim Sale’s art but Loeb still had a decent crime story going on.

[lucean]

I don't know, considering Loeb's later work, this seems to go beyond that Lee influence. To me, it started to feel like Loeb started to believe his own hype and see himself as this master storyteller, even when he was doing ridiculous stuff.

I mean, let's be honest, as decent a crime story TLH is, and I love it, that final twist is basically cheating as the reason it comes as a surprise was that Loeb had made it an impossible revelation prior in the story.

[zachbeacon]

Really the worst thing about the costume was the way Turner made the skirt shorter every issue. By the time she had her own series it was more of a belt.

[an_idol_mind]

RE: Superman slapping Darkseid around - you could make a case that he was given the extra strength by a surge of emotion for Kara's death...

...until it's revealed that this was all part of some elaborate scheme and that Superman knew Kara was never in danger. Then it turns out that Superman could have done hat to Darkseid any time he wanted, but for some reason didn't until just now.

[balbanes]

I know it was meant as a throwaway joke, but isn't Plastic Man actually extremely powerful? He's immortal and can turn himself into anything, with no restriction on size, complexity, or whether said thing is (otherwise) physically possible. So basically a reality warper whose "canvas" is limited to his own body.

[stubbleupdate]

He also, as per Obsidian Age, survived at the bottom of the ocean for centuries in pieces and didn't go mad.

[lucean]

The League of Gods was pretty clear in that from a power-perspective, Plastic Man totally belonged to the League and did a lot to elevate him. I'm still a bit bitter how fast Didio DC cast him aside.

[daningram.insanejournal.com]

I dunno if I'd regard Plastic Man as powerful, so much as he is exceptionally durable and versatile.

He can take all kinds of punishment yes, but can't dish it out, not in terms of strength or force.

[balbanes]

That's more a function of his comical personality than a limit on his power set. Because he's basically invulnerable and because he doesn't take anything seriously, Plas hasn't had many occasions to get truly lethal. But for most opponents, the fight can be ended as quickly as putting a piece of his hand/chin/body/etc. inside the other guy's mouth/eye/open wound/etc, then expanding that inserted body part. Or turning it into blenders, a bomb, tiny soldiers with bayonets, etc.

[outlawpoet]

Yes, as shown in JLA, his powerset is mostly limited by his own reluctance to go that far, he thinks of himself as mostly human in scale and capability and has little motivation to go beyond that. The incident with his son developing his powers proves that they actually can change colors and masses without limit, Plas just has difficulty thinking that way.

Of course when the world is on the line, he can literally grow to skyscraper size and smack around kaiju.

[nightauditguy]

The last few panels are what I missed from the animated version of this storyline. Why couldn't they put everyone there instead of just the Amazons?

[bj_l]

Hey, it's the Winnick Outsiders! Man, I love that team. Need to rebuy the trades.

[informationgeek]

So basically, stick to the animated film?

[wizardru]

No, it's basically condensed terrible. I was scanning this to see if it was as bad as the film and...it is. How this apparently was considered such a good story it needed to be animated over other waiting material, I couldn't tell you.

[thezmage]

It’s much less “Michael Turner”-y, at least.

[shadur]

... I do hope the welcoming party brings about two dozen cheeseburgers and a side order of fries. Ye gods and little fishies, where are her organs?