Mod Post! Comicsgate - A commentary
Sep. 17th, 2018 01:21 pm In a recent Off-Topic Tuesday, the subject of Comicsgate came up and sparked a conversation.
Some of the conversation on that thread started to exceed our community guidelines on courteous discourse, so it was frozen, but it did start the Mod Team thinking about this topic and our stance towards it.
Because, the thing is that the Comicsgate movement is not remotely Off Topic, for us it’s very, very much ON Topic.
The fundamental principle of Comicsgate is to limit the voices that comics are created by, whether it be by women, the LGBTQA community or people of colour.
As you might imagine, this is something that Scans_Daily can be quite unequivocal in our absolute rejection of.
Trying to timeline Comicsgate is a challenge to say the least, it’s tended to go through stages and surges over many months. The first we were aware of it as an issue which was triggered by the sharing of a photograph of some female creative staffers from Marvel at a convivial social gathering, which seemed to trigger a certain mindset and their complaints rapidly descended into an ongoing spiral of gatekeeping, concern trolling and outright misogyny, racism, homophobia and transphobia, sometimes cloaked under the cover of “concern for the declining sales and standards of comics”,
More recent exploits have included a list of creators to be avoided in order to teach them, and the comics companies, some sort of a lesson, and arguing with Darwyn Cooke’s widow when she fervently derided them for their claim he would have supported their goals.
Oh, and during a recent discussion about the choice of novelist Eve Ewing as the writer for the upcoming Ironheart series (a woman of colour writing about a young woman of colour), and that as someone with no previous comic writing experience she was a “diversity hire”, Neil Gaiman chipped in, pointing out that when he was hired by DC he had no previous comic writing experience, and had only some journalism credits to his name, and as such was in the same situation, but DC had liked his approach and pitch and the rest is history (and a few best selling series and some awards).
For reasons that probably made sense to them(?), proponents of Comicsgate proceeded to tell Neil Gaiman, at length, that he had got his own career wrong. The resulting twitter exchange is… a thing, but you can go look for it yourself if you want to jump down that rabbit hole, and that is entirely up to you and may depend on whatever level of faith in humanity you have.
Most recently a string of high profile creators have come out against the movement, starting with Tom Taylor, and including Jeff Lemire, Tom King, Bill Sienkeiwicz, Gail Simone and many others.
Does that mean comics might change? Yes, it likely does, and that is something that should be embraced and celebrated. Will everything work? No, of course not, but that has always been the way of creative enterprises, and that definitely doesn't mean you stop, it means you keep trying. And that will ALWAYS have our support here.
Some of the conversation on that thread started to exceed our community guidelines on courteous discourse, so it was frozen, but it did start the Mod Team thinking about this topic and our stance towards it.
Because, the thing is that the Comicsgate movement is not remotely Off Topic, for us it’s very, very much ON Topic.
The fundamental principle of Comicsgate is to limit the voices that comics are created by, whether it be by women, the LGBTQA community or people of colour.
As you might imagine, this is something that Scans_Daily can be quite unequivocal in our absolute rejection of.
Trying to timeline Comicsgate is a challenge to say the least, it’s tended to go through stages and surges over many months. The first we were aware of it as an issue which was triggered by the sharing of a photograph of some female creative staffers from Marvel at a convivial social gathering, which seemed to trigger a certain mindset and their complaints rapidly descended into an ongoing spiral of gatekeeping, concern trolling and outright misogyny, racism, homophobia and transphobia, sometimes cloaked under the cover of “concern for the declining sales and standards of comics”,
More recent exploits have included a list of creators to be avoided in order to teach them, and the comics companies, some sort of a lesson, and arguing with Darwyn Cooke’s widow when she fervently derided them for their claim he would have supported their goals.
Oh, and during a recent discussion about the choice of novelist Eve Ewing as the writer for the upcoming Ironheart series (a woman of colour writing about a young woman of colour), and that as someone with no previous comic writing experience she was a “diversity hire”, Neil Gaiman chipped in, pointing out that when he was hired by DC he had no previous comic writing experience, and had only some journalism credits to his name, and as such was in the same situation, but DC had liked his approach and pitch and the rest is history (and a few best selling series and some awards).
For reasons that probably made sense to them(?), proponents of Comicsgate proceeded to tell Neil Gaiman, at length, that he had got his own career wrong. The resulting twitter exchange is… a thing, but you can go look for it yourself if you want to jump down that rabbit hole, and that is entirely up to you and may depend on whatever level of faith in humanity you have.
Most recently a string of high profile creators have come out against the movement, starting with Tom Taylor, and including Jeff Lemire, Tom King, Bill Sienkeiwicz, Gail Simone and many others.
The notion that comics were at their best when written by a set list of straight white guys is beyond bizarre, and is utterly indefensible.
Comics need a wider range of voices, of creators, as writers, artists, inkers, colourists and editorial, because that is the only way to better reflect “the world outside the window” that was Stan Lee’s defining notion behind Marvel Comics in 1964.Does that mean comics might change? Yes, it likely does, and that is something that should be embraced and celebrated. Will everything work? No, of course not, but that has always been the way of creative enterprises, and that definitely doesn't mean you stop, it means you keep trying. And that will ALWAYS have our support here.
Thank you for your attention,
The Scans_Daily Mod Team
Icon_UK / Sistermagpie / Aeka
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Date: 2018-09-18 01:26 am (UTC)https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/09/17/frank-cho-talks-comicsgate/
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From:Frank Cho might hate racism....
From:Re: Frank Cho might hate racism....
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Date: 2018-09-18 05:35 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2018-09-17 02:28 pm (UTC)A.) These comics just look like generic no-name 90s stuff that you get from your relatives in the plastic bags because they think you like comics. It would be one thing if they were on par with indie comics like 'Locke & Key' or 'Hellboy' but they're not.
B.) There's no way independent comics of any kind will ever make a dent on Marvel and DC. Marvel and DC are still the "Big Two". Which is not to say there aren't successful independent comics (The Walking Dead being an example) but the industry is still dominated by Marvel and DC. "Alt-Hero" said they plan to 'challenge and eventually replace the SJW-converged comics of DC and Marvel'. If the top talents at Image couldn't, what makes you think you have a snowball's chance in Hell?
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Date: 2018-09-17 02:31 pm (UTC)And that was back when Marvel was suffering from bankruptcy and so forth. Today, Marvel is owned by goddamn Disney. I really don't think they are going to put Disney out of business.
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Date: 2018-09-17 02:56 pm (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2018-09-17 03:36 pm (UTC)People don't wear NY Yankees baseball caps because they appreciate the fit and the stitching. They wear them because they want to signal to the world that they identify as part of the group of Yankees fans.
Ditto comicsgate books.
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Date: 2018-09-17 05:19 pm (UTC)I mean, I think one of them tried to pick a fight with comic retailers. which, if you seriously want to compete against DC and Marvel, is as good an idea like trying to win a car race using only a bicycle.
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Date: 2018-09-17 03:09 pm (UTC)All I'll add is that people on the Internet (or in person) who appear to engage in sealioning or other forms of "just asking questions", as to whether Comicsgate (or Gamergate, or the Sad Puppies) is real, or whether the pro-diversity side's behaviour is "just as bad" -- should simply be ignored. Don't engage them; don't answer their loaded questions; don't try to win them over. They are not interested in an honest debate, but are trying to provoke you into losing your temper so that you look like the bad guy. Just walk away without fanfare.
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Date: 2018-09-17 03:26 pm (UTC)These chumps ain't comic book fans--they're opportunists looking for a new venue to sell their disgusting agenda.
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Date: 2018-09-17 03:41 pm (UTC)Jon Malin's joined in which might limit his future earning, but Thunderbolts wasn't going gangbusters.
Ethan Van Sciver, however, has possibly torpedoed his career to flog tatted up pieces from his 90s sketchbook.
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Date: 2018-09-17 04:37 pm (UTC)I just want to add to this, that for those who want to see how assholes those guys are(yes, it's mainly guys as it should surprise absolutely no one), one need only look how even Gail Simone, perhaps one of the most positive comics creator online, which never raises her tone against someone and can find something she loves in any comic book, comic book movie and adaptation, and who spends most of her time telling about how amazing and nice other creators, fans and readers are...
Is basically telling them to go away, mocking them for their awful views and laughing at their terrible art and writing.
When a group is so despicable that they get Gail Simone mocking them, then it's easy to see them for what they really are.
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Date: 2018-09-18 01:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-09-18 01:30 am (UTC)Damn Nixon.
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Date: 2018-09-18 12:46 pm (UTC)For some reason, it really makes me mad to see people tearing up the books. That's someone's work, you know? A COLLECTION of people, from writers to artists to editors, and you're not respecting their labour.
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Date: 2018-09-18 08:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2018-09-18 12:48 pm (UTC)If that doesn't perfectly encapsulate this kind of mentality, I don't know what does.