icon_uk: Mod Squad icon (Mod Squad)
[personal profile] icon_uk posting in [community profile] scans_daily
 In a recent Off-Topic Tuesday, the subject of Comicsgate came up and sparked a conversation.

Some of the conversation on that thread started to exceed our community guidelines on courteous discourse, so it was frozen, but it did start the Mod Team thinking about this topic and our stance towards it.


Because, the thing is that the Comicsgate movement is not remotely Off Topic, for us it’s very, very much ON Topic.

The fundamental principle of Comicsgate is to limit the voices that comics are created by, whether it be by women, the LGBTQA community or people of colour.

As you might imagine, this is something that Scans_Daily can be quite unequivocal in our absolute rejection of.

Trying to timeline Comicsgate is a challenge to say the least, it’s tended to go through stages and surges over many months. The first we were aware of it as an issue which was triggered by the sharing of a photograph of some female creative staffers from Marvel at a convivial social gathering, which seemed to trigger a certain mindset and their complaints rapidly descended into an ongoing spiral of gatekeeping, concern trolling and outright misogyny, racism, homophobia and transphobia, sometimes cloaked under the cover of “concern for the declining sales and standards of comics”, 

More recent exploits have included a list of creators to be avoided in order to teach them, and the comics companies, some sort of a lesson, and arguing with Darwyn Cooke’s widow when she fervently derided them for their claim he would have supported their goals.

Oh, and during a recent discussion about the choice of novelist Eve Ewing as the writer for the upcoming Ironheart series (a woman of colour writing about a young woman of colour), and that as someone with no previous comic writing experience she was a “diversity hire”, Neil Gaiman chipped in, pointing out that when he was hired by DC he had no previous comic writing experience, and had only some journalism credits to his name, and as such was in the same situation, but DC had liked his approach and pitch and the rest is history (and a few best selling series and some awards).

For reasons that probably made sense to them(?), proponents of Comicsgate proceeded to tell Neil Gaiman, at length, that he had got his own career wrong. The resulting twitter exchange is… a thing, but you can go look for it yourself if you want to jump down that rabbit hole, and that is entirely up to you and may depend on whatever level of faith in humanity you have.

Most recently a string of high profile creators have come out against the movement, starting with Tom Taylor, and including Jeff Lemire, Tom King, Bill Sienkeiwicz, Gail Simone and many others.

The notion that comics were at their best when written by a set list of straight white guys is beyond bizarre, and is utterly indefensible.

Comics need a wider range of voices, of creators, as writers, artists, inkers, colourists and editorial, because that is the only way to better reflect “the world outside the window” that was Stan Lee’s defining notion behind Marvel Comics in 1964. 

Does that mean comics might change? Yes, it likely does, and that is something that should be embraced and celebrated. Will everything work? No, of course not, but that has always been the way of creative enterprises, and that definitely doesn't mean you stop, it means you keep trying. And that will ALWAYS have our support here.

Thank you for your attention,

The Scans_Daily Mod Team

Icon_UK / Sistermagpie / Aeka

Date: 2018-09-17 12:47 pm (UTC)
laughing_tree: (Default)
From: [personal profile] laughing_tree
Thank you, mods.

Date: 2018-09-17 01:01 pm (UTC)
siamesa: (Default)
From: [personal profile] siamesa
Hey, I know I don’t comment much, but thanks for this.

Date: 2018-09-17 01:06 pm (UTC)
cygnia: (Stabby)
From: [personal profile] cygnia
I remember seeing on Twitter the term "Gaimansplaining" to describe that bit of twaddle...

Date: 2018-09-17 01:53 pm (UTC)
janegray: (Default)
From: [personal profile] janegray
You'd think people would realize that a world-famous pluri-decorated prolific writer is the last person you want to get in a verbal fight with.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] servant_iskandar - Date: 2018-09-17 02:59 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2018-09-18 10:29 am (UTC)
thatnickguy: Oreo-lovin' Martian (Default)
From: [personal profile] thatnickguy
I like "Fansplaining."

Date: 2018-09-17 01:20 pm (UTC)
mister_terrific: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mister_terrific
Very well said and I completely agree.

Date: 2018-09-17 02:07 pm (UTC)
alliterator: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alliterator
My favorite thing is that, when confronted with the fact that their entire thing is hating on women, POC, and LGBTQIA+ people, they will insist that noooo, they just want comics to be like how they were when they were growing up: filled with super busty women! (They use Milo Manara and Frank Cho as examples of "victims," despite the fact that both have been employed by Marvel as recently as, like, last year.) Oh, if only the SJWs and "cultural marxists" hadn't ruined comics by demanding that female characters look like...actual women! And then they demanded that classic characters be changed into women and other minorities! I mean, they are pretty sure that SJWs/cultural marxists held a gun to Jason Aaron's head and forced him to turn Jane Foster into Thor! Even though that doesn't make any sense! (Also, they hate communism and want politics out of comics, sooooo...back to 1939?)
Edited Date: 2018-09-17 02:10 pm (UTC)

Date: 2018-09-17 05:01 pm (UTC)
freezer: (Make It Stop)
From: [personal profile] freezer
I wish someone would explain to me just what the Heck Ramsey "cultural marxist" actually means, past "an insult (of some sort)."

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Date: 2018-09-18 01:26 am (UTC)
zachbeacon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Frank Cho has said and done things in recent years that I'm not crazy about but you can tell he's really sick of being lumped in with these idiots.

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2018/09/17/frank-cho-talks-comicsgate/

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From: [personal profile] alliterator - Date: 2018-09-18 03:46 am (UTC) - Expand

Frank Cho might hate racism....

From: [personal profile] 7dialsmystery - Date: 2018-09-18 04:55 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Frank Cho might hate racism....

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Date: 2018-09-18 05:35 am (UTC)
lilacsigil: Black Widow with sights on her (black widow)
From: [personal profile] lilacsigil
How old are these people? I read comics growing up (in the 80s) and there wasn't much of the super-busty thong-wearing porn-posing female character stuff. That was really only widespread from the early 90s so it's a very short time in comics history!

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Date: 2018-09-17 02:28 pm (UTC)
cyberghostface: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cyberghostface
Looking aside at their behavior, I just don't know what they're hoping to accomplish with the crowdfunded comics they're doing with Cyberfrog and Alt-Hero.

A.) These comics just look like generic no-name 90s stuff that you get from your relatives in the plastic bags because they think you like comics. It would be one thing if they were on par with indie comics like 'Locke & Key' or 'Hellboy' but they're not.

B.) There's no way independent comics of any kind will ever make a dent on Marvel and DC. Marvel and DC are still the "Big Two". Which is not to say there aren't successful independent comics (The Walking Dead being an example) but the industry is still dominated by Marvel and DC. "Alt-Hero" said they plan to 'challenge and eventually replace the SJW-converged comics of DC and Marvel'. If the top talents at Image couldn't, what makes you think you have a snowball's chance in Hell?

Date: 2018-09-17 02:31 pm (UTC)
alliterator: (Default)
From: [personal profile] alliterator
If the top talents at Image couldn't, what makes you think you have a snowball's chance in Hell?

And that was back when Marvel was suffering from bankruptcy and so forth. Today, Marvel is owned by goddamn Disney. I really don't think they are going to put Disney out of business.

Date: 2018-09-17 02:56 pm (UTC)
sadoeuphemist: (Default)
From: [personal profile] sadoeuphemist
It's all about the $$$. There's a market of aggrieved right-wing culture warriors willing to throw money at any old garbage as long as they think they can somehow stick it to the SJWs by doing so.

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Date: 2018-09-17 03:36 pm (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
I maintain that the quality of books like Iron Sights and Cyberfrog is irrelevant to the people who buy them.

People don't wear NY Yankees baseball caps because they appreciate the fit and the stitching. They wear them because they want to signal to the world that they identify as part of the group of Yankees fans.

Ditto comicsgate books.

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Date: 2018-09-17 05:19 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] locuatico
Everything sseems to indicate that they just don't understand the comic market, how sales operate or why the big two have as many comic sales as they do.
I mean, I think one of them tried to pick a fight with comic retailers. which, if you seriously want to compete against DC and Marvel, is as good an idea like trying to win a car race using only a bicycle.

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Date: 2018-09-17 03:09 pm (UTC)
alicemacher: Lisa Winklemeyer from the webcomic Penny and Aggie, c2004-2011 G. Lagacé, T Campbell (Default)
From: [personal profile] alicemacher
Thank you for this, and for everything you do to make scans_daily awesome.

All I'll add is that people on the Internet (or in person) who appear to engage in sealioning or other forms of "just asking questions", as to whether Comicsgate (or Gamergate, or the Sad Puppies) is real, or whether the pro-diversity side's behaviour is "just as bad" -- should simply be ignored. Don't engage them; don't answer their loaded questions; don't try to win them over. They are not interested in an honest debate, but are trying to provoke you into losing your temper so that you look like the bad guy. Just walk away without fanfare.

Date: 2018-09-17 03:26 pm (UTC)
trooper924: (Default)
From: [personal profile] trooper924
I think an important thing to note is that right wing yahoos have been trying for years to get a "Gamergate for Comic Books" off the ground.

These chumps ain't comic book fans--they're opportunists looking for a new venue to sell their disgusting agenda.

Date: 2018-09-17 03:41 pm (UTC)
stubbleupdate: (Default)
From: [personal profile] stubbleupdate
Some people have successfully monetised it far beyond what they could have achieved otherwise. Richard C. Meyer is taking it in with his two Indiegogo books of which one is definitely poorly written, drawn and laid out.
Jon Malin's joined in which might limit his future earning, but Thunderbolts wasn't going gangbusters.
Ethan Van Sciver, however, has possibly torpedoed his career to flog tatted up pieces from his 90s sketchbook.

Date: 2018-09-17 04:37 pm (UTC)
drexer: (Default)
From: [personal profile] drexer
Thank you mods.

I just want to add to this, that for those who want to see how assholes those guys are(yes, it's mainly guys as it should surprise absolutely no one), one need only look how even Gail Simone, perhaps one of the most positive comics creator online, which never raises her tone against someone and can find something she loves in any comic book, comic book movie and adaptation, and who spends most of her time telling about how amazing and nice other creators, fans and readers are...

Is basically telling them to go away, mocking them for their awful views and laughing at their terrible art and writing.

When a group is so despicable that they get Gail Simone mocking them, then it's easy to see them for what they really are.

Date: 2018-09-18 01:20 am (UTC)
dragontail: (Default)
From: [personal profile] dragontail
Hear, hear. Thank you, mods. Yet another reason why I'm proud to be part of this community.

Date: 2018-09-18 01:30 am (UTC)
tripodeca113: (Default)
From: [personal profile] tripodeca113
I sure wish the people behind these meaningless "scandals" stopped adding -gate to things.

Damn Nixon.

Date: 2018-09-18 09:17 am (UTC)
zachbeacon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Wait, so these guys didn't uncover the SJW conspiracy to ruin comics by breaking into the Comicsgate hotel?

Date: 2018-09-18 01:32 am (UTC)
zachbeacon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
Whenever someone talks about "keeping politics out of comics" I'm reminded that Captain America exists for the same reason Casablanca does; to guilt America into entering WW2. I really think there should be a resurgence of modern media that encourages people to fight Nazis.

(no subject)

From: [personal profile] velacron - Date: 2018-09-18 12:22 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2018-09-18 12:46 pm (UTC)
commodus: (Default)
From: [personal profile] commodus
I've seen some of these comicsgate people on YouTube, and there's one guy who keeps literally ripping up the comics after he reads them. He never gives them a chance, he never seems to admit they do anything right, and honestly it seems that he doesn't even like comics all that much considering just how many stories he makes videos bashing.
For some reason, it really makes me mad to see people tearing up the books. That's someone's work, you know? A COLLECTION of people, from writers to artists to editors, and you're not respecting their labour.

Date: 2018-09-18 08:49 pm (UTC)
zachbeacon: (Default)
From: [personal profile] zachbeacon
I just can't help but be amused that they're "sticking it to Marvel" by BUYING Marvel products and destroying them. This is just like those idiots who want to make a statement by burning their new Nikes.

Date: 2018-09-18 12:48 pm (UTC)
deh_tommy: Gavla from BIONICLE. For when I’m feeling argumentative, confrontational or altogether serious. (Gavla)
From: [personal profile] deh_tommy
"proponents of Comicsgate proceeded to tell Neil Gaiman, at length, that he had got his own career wrong"

If that doesn't perfectly encapsulate this kind of mentality, I don't know what does.

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